The Byzantium Thread

[Tigranes]

How often do you think about the Roman Empire?

This is on Monarch-Marathon. I must say, I had a total blast with the new map and the new Byzantine UP Splendor: Additional espionage from gold in treasure and additional gold from culture in capital! Some of the old timers here might remember the AI only Byzantium from Rhye's original mod shipped with BTS -- boy, didn't we come a long way? Unlike most UPs -- Byzantine "U" stands for Unlimited. Only the game length and your money hording skills determine how much and you will end up making. One of my favorite things after winning the UHVs is to go back 1 turn, purposefully fail the last UHV and carry on to as long as possible, to find out what will happen to my historically victorious empire, until the game will end with vanila (in this case cultural) victory. Fast forward to 1917, one turn before CV, the city of Constantine looked like this:

Spoiler Constantinople in 1917 :

(notice some buggy display of culture per turn calculations )

Quadruple Legendary 600K culture gives you 3K Gold, while 140K Gold reserves produce 1.4K Espionage. And sky, or in this case, Mars, is the limit. Central Bank, National Gallery, and National Monument are must have NWs, along with any Great Person building you can manage.

In terms of the actual UHVs, the only luck dependent factor is Great Artist by 1200 AD. There is no way to beat French or Chinese early game wonder mongering, unless you are willing to walk all the way to Chinese capital and raze it, risking the collapse. Gold can be collected with 100% taxes for couple of centuries -- you can make up on all the techs by buying them with UHV gold right after you hit the target amount (it was 866 AD for me). Inflation gets really bad with the advent of Renaissance (100%+). Even with Hagia Sophia, Shrines and Dome of the Rock it is pretty hard to afford Justinian's empire in 1450. There is never a need to immediately declare a war on the new born civs, stealing your cities: simply wait until you can again declare a war normally -- most birth bonuses also disappear by then. Both UUs are very useful for the duration of UHVs. All in all -- Byzantium is a superbly designed civilization and very enjoyable experience even with current tech rates. My abundance of espionage mostly alleviated balancing issues related to AI insane teching speeds.

 

[AOS9001]

How often do you think about the Roman Empire?

All the time, pal.

Some of the old timers here might remember the AI only Byzantium from Rhye's original mod shipped with BTS -- boy, didn't we come a long way?

We've come a crazy long way. I remember playable Byzzies being one of the main advertisements for DOC when Leoreth started, they still had their dark grey and red culture colors.

I think Byzantium's new UP is one of the best in the game, and the best iteration of Byzantium's UP yet in 10 years of DOC. Really glad to see the bribing barbs UP gone, I don't think I ever once got that mechanic to work. The new power isn't as useful in the 600 scenario because your empire is poor and underdeveloped (makes sense after "fighting" the Persians, the scenario needs an exhausted Byzantium for the Arabs to actually do their thing). In 3000 BC though, wew lad, you can go places, as you demonstrate.

And since we're making a dedicated Byzantium thread I'll repost my thoughts on their core:

Spoiler The case for a Thraco-Anatolian core :

I think the Thrace/Anatolia core previewed in early in 1.18 was more fitting - the Byzantines held onto everything between Constantinople and the Taurus mountains for the first 600 years after the fall of Rome, and still controlled the western half for 200 years after that. Meanwhile Greece and Macedonia were overrun and lost repeatedly to Avars, Slavs, Bulgars, and eventually crusaders without greatly effecting the Empire's stability. True, they did hold Morea to the very end, but Trebizond also outlived them by a few years.

Here's an animated map that shows how much more stable their rule in Anatolia (and Thrace) was compared to Greece and Epirus. Barring that pre-Komnenian/First Crusade thirty years after Manzikert, Western Anatolia and the northern Black Sea coast were the mainstays of the Empire all the way through the Fourth Crusade. The area between Thessalonika and the capital was also secure for much of that period, though with Slavic and Bulgar interruptions.

 

[Nyayr]

Byzantium the good part II of Rome, we not talk about the 'Third Rome'.

 

[attemptwasmade]

I've tried Byzantine several times, but the balkan barbarians are beating byzantines. I usually upgrade a couple spearmen and archers to heavy spears and xbows and station them in forests next to Danube (+roads to catch stray barbarians), but it's so luck based they often die even with all the bonuses and modifiers. I also had bulgarian lancers spawn in Greece a couple of times and capture cities there before I can react. I feel like I'm missing something here, do I just spam cataphracts in Constantinople?

 

[Tigranes]

I've tried Byzantine several times, but the balkan barbarians are beating byzantines. I usually upgrade a couple spearmen and archers to heavy spears and xbows and station them in forests next to Danube (+roads to catch stray barbarians), but it's so luck based they often die even with all the bonuses and modifiers. I also had bulgarian lancers spawn in Greece a couple of times and capture cities there before I can react. I feel like I'm missing something here, do I just spam cataphracts in Constantinople?

What difficulty and what start are you playing please?

Keep in mind that you can even bribe some of the Barbarians if you have Citizenship as your civic.

 

[attemptwasmade]

What difficulty and what start are you playing please?

Keep in mind that you can even bribe some of the Barbarians if you have Citizenship as your civic.

Monarch, but it doesn't seem to affect barbarian spawns. I guess I just had bad luck a few playthrough attempts in a row, kept losing units at 70% odds in my favor. Recent run is going strong, except that I've no idea how to get that UHV gold in time . Spam great merchants with 100% wealth slider?

 

[Tigranes]

Monarch, but it doesn't seem to affect barbarian spawns. I guess I just had bad luck a few playthrough attempts in a row, kept losing units at 70% odds in my favor. Recent run is going strong, except that I've no idea how to get that UHV gold in time . Spam great merchants with 100% wealth slider?

I always got gold by 100% taxes but without Merchants. What you need is an Artist -- China always beats you on culture otherwise. It won't be a shame to reload after few losses, after all it is simply a time saving measure, not really a savescamming.

 

[Kott]

How do you bribe a barbarian? Do you need a spy for that?

 

[Tigranes]

How do you bribe a barbarian? Do you need a spy for that?

Yes. Spy, money and Citizenship civic. Foederati FTW!