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The Celts

Discussion in 'Civ3 Strategy Articles' started by Ision, May 27, 2004.

  1. Lullaby

    Lullaby peaceful builder

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    I'd rate the Iros over the Celts for early warmongering. The UU only has 75% shield cost and the same offensive power.

    At higher levels, you might want an early medevial UU because the AI's large number of free units to start with makes early warmongering much harder.

    Unfortunately, there is no AGR civ with such a UU.
     
  2. Doc Tsiolkovski

    Doc Tsiolkovski Deity

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    :hmm: Dutch?
     
  3. madviking

    madviking north american scum

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    SMs get out modded with Muskets, shortly.
     
  4. Tomoyo

    Tomoyo Fate

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    :confused: :confused:

    The Dutch can't build muskets.
     
  5. Ginger_Ale

    Ginger_Ale Lurker Retired Moderator

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    Yes, they can, incase they don't have iron.

    But if they do have iron, they build Swiss Mercenaries. That's the way upgrades work, I think. (SMs upgrade to Musketeers (they don't build them), then to Rifles, so if you can build a SM, you can't build a Musket. Upgrades are weird.)
     
  6. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    Personally I think that SM's are actually an extremely useful UU. Their 'period' lasts from Feudalism to Nationalism, which is a whole era. Plus, a 30-shield equivalent Musketman is pretty decent I would have thought. ;)
     
  7. Lullaby

    Lullaby peaceful builder

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    Not the typical warmongering UU. I thought of an offensive UU as aequivalent to the Gallic Swordsman or the Mounted Warrior. Something you can easily trigger your GA with. The Swiss Merc has the problem that you have to make the enemy attack him.
     
  8. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    That's not too difficult really, though...
     
  9. Doc Tsiolkovski

    Doc Tsiolkovski Deity

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    Technically, Muskets upgrade to SMs, not the other way around.
    IMHO a pretty ingenious concept - you don't want to ever build a Musket if you have Iron; but, you are also not stuck with Spears without.

    Of course, your description of the effects in the game are correct.
     
  10. Ginger_Ale

    Ginger_Ale Lurker Retired Moderator

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    However the upgrading system is a pain for mods and added units, isn't it? ;)
     
  11. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    IIRC you can only select ONE unit to upgrade to, correct? What'd be cool is if you had the option of upgrading a unit to two (or more!) different units (as long as you had the right techs). Maybe we'll get that with civ4... hope so! :D
     
  12. madra

    madra Chieftain

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    i always play the celts. i'm still see-sawing between which of my two possible strategies is the best tho'. each has its up and down side:

    1). go all out to research iron working and find some iron and build a city on it as early as possible. and then churn out those gallic swordsman. IMHO the best unit until the industrial age. they'll kick the crap out of most things and can even defeat the odd cavalry unit on occasion . if you've reached the mediaeval era and are researching feudalism, build as many gallic swordsmen as possible beforehand, as feudalism replaces the gallic swordsman with the mediaeval infantry which is a downgrade in my book. i'd rather have gallic swordsmen than mediaeval infantry any day.

    going for broke with gallic swordsman production in this way, you can usually wipe out most of your immediate neighbours before the industrial age and, if the map is with you, often control a whole continent or large island. this gives you time to start building up your infrastructure, without fear of [land-based] attack. however, i usually find that by this stage the celts have fallen so far behind in tech terms that they will eventually get pasted by more distant and more advanced opponents across the sea, once those start building better navigation and ships and are thus able to land more advanced units on my territory and bombard my cities.

    which leads me onto my alternate strategy for the celts:

    2). go all out from the start to get the great library first. this means eschewing bronze and iron working in favour of researching alphabet, writing and literature. if you meet another civ in the meantime buy bronze and iron working off them so you can get some gallic swordsmen belatedly churned out - otherwise you're going to have to build warriors by the dozen to try and hold off the inevitable invasions until you've discovered the great library.

    if you go all out for the great library from the start in this way, you'll discover literature a long time before everyone else. at this point your more backward [but usually better armed] neighbours will start threatening you to hand over writing or literature [depending on where they're up to]. you can either offer them something else [if you're well into researching literature, you can often swap writing for iron-working], or try and hold them off while you get enough of a head-start with building the great library, so they cannae catch you.

    it's a delicate balancing act - a lot of the time the other civs will declare war on you one after the other, in attempt to destroy you before you get the great library. you need to give yourself enough of a headstart that when you do eventually have to sue for peace [offering each of them literature usuallly works!] your work already done on the great library will still let you complete it before any of them does [they'll all start building the great library, as soon as they get literature from you].

    if you manage to complete the great library first, you gain knowledge of every tech known by two of your rivals, from that point on, up until education is discovered - which isnae usually til near the industrial age. so in this way, you can stay abreast of the latest tech while making up for lost time by building up the strength of your armies.

    this second strategy stops the celts getting left behind tech-wise as the game progresses; after gallic swordsmen, the next milestone unit for me is the cavalry - but it does leave them very vulnerable in the early stages of the game.
     
  13. Slowburn

    Slowburn Chieftain

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    I also wanted to say that just as a mediocre player in C3C that the Celts have given me the most success in playing. For some reason, I can easily turn their traits into a very good game against the AI. Although haven't finished a game yet, I think I will finally be able to win a game with them soon at Reagent level, along with the tips on game playing I have found here on this site.
     
  14. Headbanger

    Headbanger Chieftain

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    It actually says in the civilopedia that it makes every irrigated square produce one more food than it should, so an irrigated grassland under monarchy produces 4 food, and under despotism it produces 3.
     
  15. spoiler2010

    spoiler2010 Chieftain

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    Brennus' Team Ireland has been one of the elite teams in the Spoiler Civ III League since their debut in Season #2. Despite a losing effort in a brash attempt at winning the Regent in their rookie year, the Celts racked up 3016 points to win the singles championship. The Celtic Swordsman (next to the Vikings' Berserkers and the Persians' Immortals) is one of the most devastating special units in the game, continuing to contribute to the Celts' formidable reputation.

    Known as the Ruthless Opportunist, Brennus manipulated the league rules to his advantage in the following seasons. He racked up 4009 points in a loss to the Persians in his Warlord title match in Season #3, which served to enhance the prestige of the team championship of Basque Force (along with his partner Spain). In Season #4, he picked up 3190 points on the Histograph to edge out England for the eighth (and last) playoff spot. He was able to roll over his series into Season #5 and came away with the Warlord, scoring a Celt team record 4213 points.

    For newbies, the AI Celts may be one of your softest targets. Along with the Romans, Carthage and the Zulus, AI Celts seem to develop slowly and have a ******ed counteroffensive strategy that makes them a team to eliminate early in the game. Picking them as your team to play, you'll have lots of fun watching those WWE-Sheamus lookalikes shearing their way through all standing in your way. Enjoy!
     
  16. Roundman

    Roundman Chieftain

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    I know that I'm about a decade late for this discussion, but I've been playing around with the Celts lately and have found them to be incredibly powerful.

    I tend to play standard games with medium continents on Monarch. With some decent land, iron, and a little patience, you can build a core empire in the early ancient age of several cities with temples and barracks, pump out Gallic Swordsman ("GSs"), launch a late Ancient Age invasion of a neighbor (triggering a Golden Age and thereby turbocharging GW production), and conquer your entire continent well before the Industrial Age.

    It's hard to overstate the greatness of the Gallic Swordsman. The Gallic Swordsman is effective until Nationalism. They tear through Spearmen and Pikemen, and with their retreat ability they're even useful against cities held by Musketmen. In my last game, I was even able to demolish the Greeks (Hoplites) and Dutch (Swiss Mercenaries), civilizations I tend to avoid in the early due to their defensive UUs.

    Although GSs are fairly expensive, the Celts are equipped to mitigate the costs with large cities fueled by cheap temples, cathedrals, and aqueducts. GSs are comparable to Knights, but GSs come earlier and with a required tech, have no weaknesses against Pikemen, require fewer resources to build (only iron, no horses), and are more cost effective (you can get 7 GSs for the cost of 4 Knights). Just make sure to avoid researching Feudalism for as long as possible.

    Cheap temples help the Celts consolidate their conquests through culture and make for a well rounded civilization. Once you've taken the continent, you can focus on developing your large empire so that you catch up in tech (at least, any tech you haven't beaten out of the other civilizations). The religious trait also allows you to easily switch governments to suit your phase of the game. Go into Democracy to develop your empire and pull ahead in tech, then go to Fascism to put your tech to use. Having subdued my continent with GSs, I was able to conquer the rest of the world with Modern Armors while they were still using Riflemen.

    While I agree with the overall article, I would put Celts in the first tier. The UU is superb and very well timed. The traits have good synergy and help you grow quickly through both population size and culture. Quick government changes allow the Celts to function as both builder/researcher and warmonger as the situation dictates.
     
  17. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Chieftain

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    Sounds like you might also enjoy the following training game:
    Asterix the Gaul -- Or: How to get the biggest bang out of the Gallic Swordsman
    where we explored the possibilities of the Gallic Swordsman on an Emperor level continents map.

    And, if you like the GS, then also try a game as the Iroquois. That UU (Mounted Warrior, 3/1/2) is even better, because a) it costs only 30 shields instead of 40, and b) it can be upgraded all the way to Cavalry, while the GS is kind of obsolete (you don't want to "upgrade" to Medieval Inf, as you lose the speed, and you can't upgrade to Guerilla, because the game will be over, before you reach the Industrial Age... ;))
     
  18. Roundman

    Roundman Chieftain

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    The Mounted Warrior is indeed powerful. The MW and the GS- the two 3 attack, two movement units of the Ancient Age- remain useful through most of the Middle Ages and can help you sweep the continent by themselves. I didn't even need to upgrade the MWs in my last Iriquois game. I conquered my continent long before Military Tradition.
     

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