The Civ V wish-list!!!

3) I don't know if immune is the right word, chances are your population will decimated and so the disease will retreat naturally but without having researched it properly it could return. But yes aqueducts, sewers, medicine.

4) I imagined when one of your cities becomes infected you gain the option to research that disease, after the first round of testing you would slow its spread because you understand how it is transferred. You then get to research its treatment and its eradication.

3) But natural inmunity (developed trhough generations) is a naturally occuring phenomenum. That's why Europeans and Asians have lived and died with smallpox for centuries, but it decimated native Americans. I think inmunity should develop without research through mere time (exposure) and health resources.

4) That's a great idea, but only after discovering medicine (which should be much earlier than in civ iv), and vaccination. neat.

Where was it I was talking about giving spies promotions, I already mentioned a hacker promotion but a terrorist promotion could give an increased chance of success for destroy building missions. And you could just add a suicidal option for sabotage production and destroy building, and I guess the spread disease mission too, it would greatly increase chance of success and lower the espionage cost, it would just sacrifice the spy of course.

Just thought of this whilst I was writing my answers to those questions, it would be nice if you could divide your research amongst different topics, of course dividing it equally doesn't make sense (you could research two techs in the same time and finish one earlier). So instead your civ specialises, it has biologists, chemists and physicists, if you fund biologists more then your biology research recruitment improves to the detriment of your other lines and so the rate you can research biological technologies improves. This would add a team aspect where two civs can get together and suggest one concentrates on biology and chemistry and the other the other focuses on physics and they trade techs. Now my example of the breakdown isn't great, perhaps instead it should be scientific, mathematical and philosophical. Basically I want to be able to research different things at the same time, it came from the thought that you might have a tech that is going to take ages to research like curing Aids but you don't want to stop everything else just put it on the back burner. So I think I came up with two ideas there. I'm going to start a new thread.

I guess it'd be the same as with producing two things in the same city, units and buildings.
In research one could research both a millitary technology and a philosophical technology at the same time. I guess science is valid for both. Interesting- and difficult- concept.
 
I wish the insane spy spawning would be abolished. I find it annoying. Make spies much more expensive to build so they don't swarm the way they do at present.
 
No, I meant only trrrrists should costs population given the cruel nature of a suicide bomber. ONly perhaps, 10 suicide bombers should cost 1 pop.
Hackers should be inexpensive, and the Internet Wonder should double science trhoughout the empire or something.

Also perhaps if suicide bombers can only be produced by "totalitarian" civics, then maybe under environmentalism you shouldnt be able to produce nukes.

Under environmentalism, you should be able to build eco terrorists, and i dont think that suicide bombers would be only "totalitarian" civcs. there should be religious fundelmentalist groups.
 
I think the whole idea of "Terrorists" is wrong, it is an opinion of their justification and methods. Islamic terrorist that much of the world is fighting see us as the terrorists. The concept of suicide bombing or suicide missions is not unique to terrorism, Japanese Kamikaze pilots in WW2, and almost all other terrorist groups do not undertake suicide missions, IRA, ETA, Chechen Rebels. All "terrorist" should be is a modern day name for barbarians, as for state funded terrorism, give the barbarians the ability to ask for help from other civs. We already have a certain level of terrorism in the guise of espionage, poisoning water supplies kills huge amounts of the population, destroying buildings happens quite a lot and destroying improvements too. It is just that the diplomatic ramifications aren't there.
 
I think the whole idea of "Terrorists" is wrong, it is an opinion of their justification and methods.

Terrorism is not a political position, it is a set of tactics. Units that simulate those tactics should be accessible to any government, if the player wants and is willing to take the appropriate risks of being found out; otherwise the game is taking a political position at a scale which I think is inappropriate.
 
@ buffallo: by totalitarian i included theocracy as well as environmentalist.

@rysmiel: the game already has incorporated a political stance: emancipation makes the other labor civics obsolete.

I was trying to be consistent as in if thecoracy you can't enjoy non-kosher or haram resources, in environmentalism you shouldnt be able to enjoy nuclear plants and nukes.
reality is not neccesarily too consistent.

Terrorism is a set of tactics, it should be incorporated just as nukes were.
There's a lot of potentiality to damage the enemy in different ways without having to invade its city with the costs that the adventure entails. Sabotagge his spaceship, spread disease or unhapiness, forcing cultural or religious assimilation....

This leads me to think: Missionaries, Spies, and future terrorists and hackers, should be part of a distinct "intelligence" aspect of the game in which promotions (instead of barracks and experience: intelligence agencies, and wonders such as Vatican, CIA and Mossad) are far more important than unit production.
 
Anyway, Any support for the POLDER idea? Work boats that after long turns or a lot of money can turn only coastal water tiles into solid ground?
Any support whatsoever for putting that on the list?
 
Anyway, Any support for the POLDER idea? Work boats that after long turns or a lot of money can turn only coastal water tiles into solid ground?
Any support whatsoever for putting that on the list?

I like this a lot, though I don't approve of work boats getting used up, they should be like land-based worker units; and polders are only one of the sorts of terraforming the game should support, Civ 2 got it right that ultimately any tile should be transformable to any other with enough work and tech, it gives you an extra late-game goal.
 
@ buffallo: by totalitarian i included theocracy as well as environmentalist.

Which should be distinct types of government, as should governments essentially run by corporations, rather than pick-and-choose civics.

@rysmiel: the game already has incorporated a political stance: emancipation makes the other labor civics obsolete.

I think this supports my point, actually. Slavery, handled well, should be entirely independent of what government you use.

Terrorism is a set of tactics, it should be incorporated just as nukes were.
There's a lot of potentiality to damage the enemy in different ways without having to invade its city with the costs that the adventure entails. Sabotagge his spaceship, spread disease or unhapiness, forcing cultural or religious assimilation....

I am all for more and stronger ways of competing other than military; I think Civ has been slowly improving on this since the beginning, but it has a way to go yet until non-military strategies are as strong as military ones.

This leads me to think: Missionaries, Spies, and future terrorists and hackers, should be part of a distinct "intelligence" aspect of the game in which promotions (instead of barracks and experience: intelligence agencies, and wonders such as Vatican, CIA and Mossad) are far more important than unit production.

I like the objective, but remain steadfastly opposed to promotions as part of the mechanism. Wonders and unit upgrades are the way to go.
 
with terrorism, should come nuclear threats as terrorist might gain control of your country's nuclear stockpile and bio weapons should be come standard in game.
 
The following suggestions are very difficult to realize but whatever. Additionally, each suggestion requires some others, for example suggestion 2 can't work without suggesion 1. Most of thses suggestions are for war mods such as the Road To War, but others are universal.

1. Advanced tile. I think the system right now for tiles is terrible: each tile is just to big for the map. On the other hand, making tiles smaller would make each map way too giant and annoying. So, I came up with a compromise. In the general view each tile is the same as it was in Civ 4. Howevery, you should be able to have a zoom tile button that breaks up the tile into a four by four square. Each mini tile would have a different terrain than the other (for example if the tile itself was hills then more than say half of the minitiles would have hills on them). Movement cost in a minitile is obviously one fourth of normal.

2. Brigades and other unit modifications Limit the number of units to a tile to eight. Each unit is to be a division and is therefore broken up into four brigades when on any tile. Each brigade can occupy a different minitile in each tile with a limit of two per minitile. The strength of each brigade is the same. The reason for this this modification is 1. putting too many units on a single tile is lame because in real life you simply cant do that 2. Makes strategies such as flanking and encirclement not just some stupid upgrade (just wait and ill explain).

3. Logistical and supply lines When a unit is created you have to pick what city is his command center (must be one of the five largest cities and if you change command centers the unit cannot move for three turns). Before radio, each unit requires a line of command and if it is disrupted then you cannot control the unit, it does whatever it wants. After radio you dont have lines of command but if the city that has the command center is captured then the unit does whatever it want for three turns. Each unit has a meter of how much food, water, ammunition, and fuel it has. When a unit runs out of food then it looses health each turn, when out of water it automatically dies, and when out of fuel or ammunition it surrenders and turns into a POW (explain later). Obviously for units that travel on horse or by foot they dont need fuel. After each turn a unit uses a certain percentage of water and food, after each battle a certain percentage of ammo, and after each move a certain amount of fuel. As long as supply lines are intact then the unit automatically fills the next turn. But if supply lines are cut off then they use the supplies as explained earlier. Also, units who are out of food or water may pillage tiles refill. All supply lines must connect to one of the five largest cities. Supply lines are only roads and railroads, nothing else. Since each tile is comprised up of minitiles, making it so that roads do not fill the entire tile and that only two brigades can fit in one minitile this has a few very important and great impacts. The major implication, and my favorite, is that it makes blitzkrieg a viable option. For those who don't know, Blitzkrieg is not just about surprise warfare but also, among other things, encirclement. Once you encircle an enemy and cut off his supply lines with these modifications, that enemy is at a severe disadvantage. He must fight his way out of the encirclement or else he is completely screwed. This makes the game SO much better because military strategy is not just brute force, there is intricate strategy of how to defeat enemies.

4. New modes of attack defense Combined with the minitile idea, new modes of attack could make the game so much better. The first thing is that any brigade that fortifies can only fortify itself in one direction. That is they get a defense bonus if the attack comes from that side. That makes flanking a real strategy to utilize. When you attack from the side you get say a 50 percent bonus. Better than that is that you can do a combined attack with one other brigade on another tile. That way you can flank from both sides and get a 75 percent bonus. Flanking is just one example and I will only explain a few more, but there are definitely many more modes of attack and defense. A defense action that automatically engages another unit in an adjacent minitile and one that fires artillery whenever another unit is within its range, hold at all costs defense and retreat if necessary defense etc... Also, at any time when you are in another countries land during war or when you are surrounded, you may capitulate that unit to turn into POW as explained later.

5. Resource modification To me it seems absurd that you can have one oil resource but supply a million tanks. I therefore propose that each resource work much like how money works in the game. Each city depending on its size uses a certain amount of a resource per turn and so do units and buildings. This way having multiple resources of the same thing actually means something. This would make the game way better in my opinion.

6. Linear population and exponential growth In opinion, one population point of a city should equal a given non variable number of people, for example a city of 1 million has 100 population and a city of 100 thousand has 10. The number of people per population point should change as you change eras, which makes logical sense. Poplation growth should not be dependent on food but rather you set it yourself (I know it sounds totalitarian). The wat to make it so that people dont just set the percent to the highest is to have three age demographics, 0-17, 18-55, 55+. Only people in the middle demographic actually contrubite wealth and and work points to the city while the other two just cost money. So any person who decides to set the growth rate the highest will have too many people from the lower demographic and thefore suffer. To make this population modification work, you need a food modification. Food production should be cumiltive based on reaching a certain tech meaning that food from one part of the empire can supply a city somewhere else. Also, after a certain tech you should be able to plant certain resources such as cotton and bannanas permitting that the terrain is right, because before it seemed ridiculous that in the modern age you couldn't choose to grow wheat, it had to have been already there. Also, instead of placing people in cities on squares you should just place them in a profession like before. There should be new professions such as farmer, factory worker, doctor, etc. Each profession has obvious bonuses and the limit of each is based on the terrain around the cities, for example how many farms, and on certain buildings. All of this is to make it so that a city of one million people actually has 100 times the productions of a city of 10 thousand, as in real life. The only way to make this actually work is to also have a professional work in other cities (for example if you want to make a hosipital in a small city you have workers from another city to come and make it) for an additional cost. An implication of this is that everthing must cost much more because some cities have like 100 population but you can spread out production with the professions.

7. Unit creation Whenevery you make a unit you actually make two, one is the equipment, for example making a tank for tank unit or guns for an infantry unit, and the other is the actual person. Factories and all work points only affect the production of the equipment, not actually the person. Buildings such as a military recruitment center affect the training fo the person. Whenever you make a person for the unit it takes one population point from the city no matter what (however with linear populations the lose is not very bad). Trained units obviously start with more experience point than do drafted units.

8. POW Whenever you capture an enemy because he runs out of ammo or something, he turns into a POW that you control. You also get the equipment that unit had but you have to supply the person for the unit yourself. You can move it to cities or such without any sort of military escort (in real life it doesn't take that much military police to escort so why bother) but if they get captured by their original country then they turn back into their original unit person with the same experience. Obviously you can have an escort but you don't necessarily need it. That means if you capture a city where POW's are at then they turn into a person unit like the ones that come from military recruitment centers as in number 7. Once you equip them with the right equipment they can fight again on your side. Also, you can choose to kill POW's but other countries get really angry at you. Lastly, as in real life, you can trade your POW's for other POW's or other things such as a lump sum of gold.

Well thats it, I know its long-that's what she said-but please give me your feedback, thank you :)
 
Sangeli, cross-posting is not good form. Put your thoughts in one thread.
 
1. Advanced tile. I think the system right now for tiles is terrible: each tile is just to big for the map. On the other hand, making tiles smaller would make each map way too giant and annoying. So, I came up with a compromise. In the general view each tile is the same as it was in Civ 4. Howevery, you should be able to have a zoom tile button that breaks up the tile into a four by four square. Each mini tile would have a different terrain than the other (for example if the tile itself was hills then more than say half of the minitiles would have hills on them). Movement cost in a minitile is obviously one fourth of normal.

I think my considered response to this is "ick". Possibly because your first two sentences aren't clear enough to me as to what you are actually seeing as a problem here.

1. putting too many units on a single tile is lame because in real life you simply cant do that

If a tile represents ten or a hundred miles on a side, I think you should be able to stack as many units as you like on it.

3. Logistical and supply lines When a unit is created you have to pick what city is his command center (must be one of the five largest cities and if you change command centers the unit cannot move for three turns). Before radio, each unit requires a line of command and if it is disrupted then you cannot control the unit, it does whatever it wants. After radio you dont have lines of command but if the city that has the command center is captured then the unit does whatever it want for three turns.

This seems an additional layer of complication for no real gain in fun.

After each turn a unit uses a certain percentage of water and food, after each battle a certain percentage of ammo, and after each move a certain amount of fuel. As long as supply lines are intact then the unit automatically fills the next turn.

I'm not opposed to simulating this by some more sophisticated take on the Civ1/2 model of units having home cities and costing those cities shields and food, but this approach is excessive, IMO.

4. New modes of attack defense Combined with the minitile idea, new modes of attack could make the game so much better. The first thing is that any brigade that fortifies can only fortify itself in one direction. That is they get a defense bonus if the attack comes from that side. That makes flanking a real strategy to utilize. When you attack from the side you get say a 50 percent bonus. Better than that is that you can do a combined attack with one other brigade on another tile. That way you can flank from both sides and get a 75 percent bonus. Flanking is just one example and I will only explain a few more, but there are definitely many more modes of attack and defense. A defense action that automatically engages another unit in an adjacent minitile and one that fires artillery whenever another unit is within its range, hold at all costs defense and retreat if necessary defense etc... Also, at any time when you are in another countries land during war or when you are surrounded, you may capitulate that unit to turn into POW as explained later.

This is heading in the direction of making each combat into a tactical minigame, which is one of the worst notions ever floated for a Civ-like game.

5. Resource modification To me it seems absurd that you can have one oil resource but supply a million tanks. I therefore propose that each resource work much like how money works in the game. Each city depending on its size uses a certain amount of a resource per turn and so do units and buildings. This way having multiple resources of the same thing actually means something. This would make the game way better in my opinion.

I am entirely in favour of this; I've talked about more sophisticate resource models elsewhere in this forum.

In opinion, one population point of a city should equal a given non variable number of people, for example a city of 1 million has 100 population and a city of 100 thousand has 10. The number of people per population point should change as you change eras, which makes logical sense.

So the "size" of your city would change at the start of an era ? [ If 90,000 people is 9 units of 10,000 people in the ancient age but three units of thirty thousand people in the next age, for example ? ]

I don't like it. The current Civ model lets you represent just-founded cities and huge megalopoli on the same exponential-ish scale without any awkward fiddling about between ages, and I think that's a sesnible simplification.

Poplation growth should not be dependent on food but rather you set it yourself (I know it sounds totalitarian)... All of this is to make it so that a city of one million people actually has 100 times the productions of a city of 10 thousand, as in real life.

This is another one of those places where "realism" hurts gameplay, I think.
 
The thing about growth being dependant solely on food is that whilst it is partial true, it is not complete, you can have huge populations of underfed mostly children, ie many centeral African countries, China, India, Or you can have much better feed smaller populations UK, France, Italy. I am not sure where US fits in, large population, large people, actually whats the population density?

Population and growth should be dependant on food, but you should also be able to run population control programs: rationing, birth control, birth encouragement, contraceptive dissuading (religious?), these would depend on technologies, and there could be different forms of birth control; sex education, free contraception, enforced one child per family limit, enforced two children per family limit, child benefit (birth encouragement). I mean population handling is an important part of running a country and even a civilisation. The Chinese have known for a long time they would not be able to support their population at the rate it was growing, hence their one child policy, unfortunately because their culture favours boys they have a large number of female orphans who have been deserted because the family wanted a boy, and a large number of orphans in total because people can't stop themselves having kids because they can't afford contraception and are educated enough to manage it themselves.
 
The thing about growth being dependant solely on food is that whilst it is partial true, it is not complete, you can have huge populations of underfed mostly children, ie many centeral African countries, China, India, Or you can have much better feed smaller populations UK, France, Italy. I am not sure where US fits in, large population, large people, actually whats the population density?

Sure, adequate food is not sufficient for population growth; but it is necessary.

Population and growth should be dependant on food, but you should also be able to run population control programs: rationing, birth control, birth encouragement, contraceptive dissuading (religious?), these would depend on technologies, and there could be different forms of birth control; sex education, free contraception, enforced one child per family limit, enforced two children per family limit, child benefit (birth encouragement). I mean population handling is an important part of running a country and even a civilisation.

Well, yes. And simulating this by either having people generate food by working the land, and put their efforts into population growth, or alternatively not work the land and be specialists providing other benefits, works reasonably well for me.

I'm not seeing a gameplay benefit to be derived from simulating a population control program; even less so in Civ IV, with its moving away from modelling unhappy people one population point at a time, than in previous versions.
 
Terrorism is not a political position, it is a set of tactics. Units that simulate those tactics should be accessible to any government, if the player wants and is willing to take the appropriate risks of being found out; otherwise the game is taking a political position at a scale which I think is inappropriate.

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? I was trying to say the same thing that you said, and in places I have said exactly that, give spies the opportunity for more "terrorist" tactics. I mean at the minute Poison Water Supply causes huge civilian loss and would be considered terrorism in todays world, but several hundred years ago it was an acceptable military tactic.
 
My thoughts are that now-a-days people think differently about rebels than they did 100-200 years ago, the OPINION has changed, also with Human Rights and the Geneva Convention, Rules of Engagement etc. I mean within my life time the United States has funded terrorists, and they were fighting one of her allies!
 
My thoughts are that now-a-days people think differently about rebels than they did 100-200 years ago, the OPINION has changed, also with Human Rights and the Geneva Convention, Rules of Engagement etc. I mean within my life time the United States has funded terrorists, and they were fighting one of her allies!

There are those who would argue that the US is pursuing a terrorist campaign right now in Iraq. It's just a question of perspective, and I would rather that Civ did not lock itself into anybody's perspective on whether a given set of people are terrorists or... freedom fighters, insert your own positive description here.
 
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