The Civ V wish-list!!!

[rysmiel]

So if Vancouver puts a new opera house in, and the Seahawks move to Portland, should Canada be able to swallow Seattle?

Yes. This is exactly the mechanic I want to see. And not just because I have friends in the Seattle area I'd rather not have to cross a scary border to see.

Next question ?

 

[Skallagrimson]

Please dont patronise me, I was in the British Army for 22yrs, I have been part of the "news"..." for the past 10yrs".

And you were obviously absent from Fallujah. And never read about Leningrad, or the Tet Offensive. It's not "nice" or "fun" or "easy" to take a city, especially when it has a motivated, armed, and equipped defensive force in it, but that doesn't mean it's "never an option" to try to take it by force. How badly do you want it, and who is it that's defending it?

It was insane to go into downtown Mogadishu to apprehend people the U.N. wanted apprehended there, but Americans did it, at great cost on both sides of the conflict.

and yes as I said, during war, control of an area should be ZOC determined. And yes, they would be under siege, thats what happens in war! But sieges can be allieviated, Re- the Berlin Air lift, essentially under siege, becasue, the "enemy" controlled the surrounding area.

This calls for a game determination of air superiority over various zones, with which a surrounded city is "supplied" (by air), and without which it is "cut off" (even by air). Without open warfare access is assumed to be granted to a defending logistics force in a Berlin-like situation.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Yes. This is exactly the mechanic I want to see. And not just because I have friends in the Seattle area I'd rather not have to cross a scary border to see.

Next question ?

You may be onto something, as this could resolve the Arab-Israeli wars with a simple dance contest.

Feel qualified for U.N. Secretary General candidacy.

 

[Ekmek]

i biggest wish is it to be easy to mod, especially graphics. By using blender and nifskope we produced some decent units and leaderheads. But with leaderheads you couldnt do full firaxis shader quality. Even worse it has taken us about 3-4 years to get to the point where us modders are doing great stuff because there was such a high learning curve.

I could go on and on about the gamefont.tgas and how much a pain they are.

So firaxis, as civ2 and civ4, show the modders can keep a game going for years. give us more tools to make high quality stuff early and you'll benefit!

 

[gingermick]

And you were obviously absent from Fallujah. And never read about Leningrad, or the Tet Offensive.

Ok a history lesson:
The petty bit: Leningrad and Tet weren't in the last 10yrs.
The proper bit: Leningrad: This was attacked for the following reasons, Hitler, was obsessed with the destruction of Communism. And Leningrad was the "birthplace" of communism and had the name of the current leader! therefore having Cultural significance beyond strategy. But, it was also the Home of the Baltic fleet and also had a huge arms and ammunition manufacturing complex (11% of all soviet output). So in this sense it also had a Stragegic, Tactical and Cultural importance. Therefore it would make sense to attempt to assault and destroy the city as bombing capability, then, was insificient to destroy the city alone.

Tet offensive: This was a massive simultaneous attack on the HQs, and over 100 towns towns and cities across the whole country. Militarily, it failed. The most significant successes for the VietCong were Hue, of Cutural significance to the Vietcong and around KheSanh, please note around KheSanh. Again trying to defeat the enemy in the field. They attacked the towns and cities in the Tet offensive without controlling the ground around them, no surprises that they failed, in my book. Overall, this action has been credited as the turning point in US policy about the Vietnam Campaign.

Both of these actions could easily repeated, with a bit of poetic license, within Civ4. (if you squint your eyes slightly....lol)

Fallujah. The "war" was over, this was an uprising, the mayor was Pro-American and invited the American troops in, this wasnt liked by the locals who rose up. This too is sort of repeated within Civ 4 when a City goes into revolt and the occupying units within it, take a hit.

It was insane to go into downtown Mogadishu to apprehend people the U.N. wanted apprehended there, but Americans did it, at great cost on both sides of the conflict.

This was not a war, it was an arrest mission

A point raised here, obliquely, I would like to see in Civ 5 is insurgeant forces, which I see as being as very expensive, could "invade" other countries without the sponsoring nation to declare war, a bit like spies, and could help cause cities to go into revolt, or attack military units, or destroy infrastructure, or destroy the occupying culture and possibly other things.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Both of these actions could easily repeated, with a bit of poetic license, within Civ4. (if you squint your eyes slightly....lol)

My point was that Civ's representation of urban combat is reflected in historical events, and perhaps unwittingly, you helped to make that point by trying to come off sounding superior and "I've been everywhere and done everything". Congratulations.

 

[gingermick]

you patronising wanker

 

[Antilogic]

Ok a history lesson:
The petty bit: Leningrad and Tet weren't in the last 10yrs.
The proper bit: Leningrad: This was attacked for the following reasons, Hitler, was obsessed with the destruction of Communism. And Leningrad was the "birthplace" of communism and had the name of the current leader! therefore having Cultural significance beyond strategy. But, it was also the Home of the Baltic fleet and also had a huge arms and ammunition manufacturing complex (11% of all soviet output). So in this sense it also had a Stragegic, Tactical and Cultural importance. Therefore it would make sense to attempt to assault and destroy the city as bombing capability, then, was insificient to destroy the city alone.

Tet offensive: This was a massive simultaneous attack on the HQs, and over 100 towns towns and cities across the whole country. Militarily, it failed. The most significant successes for the VietCong were Hue, of Cutural significance to the Vietcong and around KheSanh, please note around KheSanh. Again trying to defeat the enemy in the field. They attacked the towns and cities in the Tet offensive without controlling the ground around them, no surprises that they failed, in my book. Overall, this action has been credited as the turning point in US policy about the Vietnam Campaign.

Both of these actions could easily repeated, with a bit of poetic license, within Civ4. (if you squint your eyes slightly....lol)

Fallujah. The "war" was over, this was an uprising, the mayor was Pro-American and invited the American troops in, this wasnt liked by the locals who rose up. This too is sort of repeated within Civ 4 when a City goes into revolt and the occupying units within it, take a hit.




This was not a war, it was an arrest mission

A point raised here, obliquely, I would like to see in Civ 5 is insurgeant forces, which I see as being as very expensive, could "invade" other countries without the sponsoring nation to declare war, a bit like spies, and could help cause cities to go into revolt, or attack military units, or destroy infrastructure, or destroy the occupying culture and possibly other things.

I don't mean to nitpick, but I thought Hitler's contemporary in the Soviet Union during WW2 was Stalin.

The post-WW2 notion of "policing actions" and insurgent forces and basically the concept of limited war simply doesn't exist in Civ (4, or any previous version). And, I'm hard-pressed to figure out a system that would work--you could make "pirate" versions of normal units with a special promotion or doubling the number of modern units, but I can see the potential for abuse: you have to make them expensive so somebody doesn't obliterate all but a single unit and then declare a real war and occupy the target, but they have to be numerous enough that a standing peacetime Civ army won't wipe them out immediately--three "insurgent" infantry units wouldn't last a second against my tank depot, but in the real world insurgencies last longer than a single game turn.

Maybe just using the spy missions to sabotage towns and incite city revolts is enough. Maybe that's just the best the Civ engine can do.

 

[gingermick]

I don't mean to nitpick, but I thought Hitler's contemporary in the Soviet Union during WW2 was Stalin.

Yeah, sorry, I got my Stalins and Lenins, Stalinggrads and Leningrads a bit mixed up lol

--three "insurgent" infantry units wouldn't last a second against my tank depot, but in the real world insurgencies last longer than a single game turn.

Maybe just using the spy missions to sabotage towns and incite city revolts is enough. Maybe that's just the best the Civ engine can do.

I agree, but I dont like the spy in Civ 4 (although I use them lol). "Spys" are as old as warfare so to have them so late in the game is annoying, and yeah I would like them to have more capability like inciting revolts and destroying specific buildings or assassinating great persons. The other thing I dont understand, is why only 4? Although I think that direct spys shoould be expensive in maintainance every turn, that would limit the amount in use by any civ, I thonk they should be able to recruit "local" spys, perhaps of a lesser capability but essentially free to maintain. This concept is not new to Civ as you can get workers and warriors from the "goodie huts" at the earliest stage of the game.

 

[eddiewillers]

Is this getting read by Sid's court? Is someone collecting the valuable ideas and making, and depuring lists? Every company values customer's feedback best.

New idea:
Strategic alliance aren't very cooperative, for example if I have a stack of units in the German coast, even though we are both at war with Lizzie, I can't ask them to just borrow me a transport for a single turn.

CIV 4 has the nice useless thing of being able to give away your units to the enemy.
Can't, not military units, but workers and transport be RENTED for number of turns?

If the borrowed units get killed during the time of the lease, you have the choice to pay back their cost or just let it be depending on the level of "cooperation" of your "friend".

 

[Antilogic]

I agree, but I dont like the spy in Civ 4 (although I use them lol). "Spys" are as old as warfare so to have them so late in the game is annoying, and yeah I would like them to have more capability like inciting revolts and destroying specific buildings or assassinating great persons. The other thing I dont understand, is why only 4? Although I think that direct spys shoould be expensive in maintainance every turn, that would limit the amount in use by any civ, I thonk they should be able to recruit "local" spys, perhaps of a lesser capability but essentially free to maintain. This concept is not new to Civ as you can get workers and warriors from the "goodie huts" at the earliest stage of the game.

It seems like you should upgrade to BtS. Espionage in BtS got a complete overhaul, and you can start poisoning wells, inciting revolts, stealing technologies, sabotaging production, and more when you discover Alphabet. I agree with you, though, Vanilla/Warlords Civ4 espionage was sub-par.

 

[Tholish]

"i biggest wish is it to be easy to mod, especially graphics. By using blender and nifskope we produced some decent units and leaderheads. But with leaderheads you couldnt do full firaxis shader quality. Even worse it has taken us about 3-4 years to get to the point where us modders are doing great stuff because there was such a high learning curve."

While they like people to create mods, and listen loud and clear to that effort, I don't think it would be worthwhile to create a very specialized modding system (unless it were an in game AI modding system that could become a new feature). However, it would be both cost effective and good for moddiing to just keep many elements of the existing system that have taken people so long to learn and get and master software for.

Unfortunately, I heard they are switching to a totally new 3D graphics engine and graphics formats that there are no plugins for and writing the entire game in Fortran, with Perl as the scripting language. Psych.


If they decide to keep the XML system it would be nice if it came out of the box more organized so it wouldn't take as long to learn the tags. And similar for the other stuff.

 

[eddiewillers]

It seems like you should upgrade to BtS. Espionage in BtS got a complete overhaul, and you can start poisoning wells, inciting revolts, stealing technologies, sabotaging production, and more when you discover Alphabet. I agree with you, though, Vanilla/Warlords Civ4 espionage was sub-par.

dang I haven't upgraded to BtS. Can I really poision enemy wells? What about throwing infected corpses into a walled city? Biological warfair is ancient and perhaps the most important part of a game concept I'd like to see implemented: BESIEGED CITIES:
In the times when cities that didn't want to be razed had walls surrounding them, to caputre one meant a long siege and a war of supplies: who starves faster.
I strongly emphasize my reiterative suggestion: let's make diseases forCIV V the way we have religion for CIV IV. That way a siege could actually be realistic.

All French medieval wars between feuds were a matter of sieging the castle.
Acre was taken by the Crusaders this way.
Tmutarkan or some Crimean city was taken by the turks this way, and that way came along the black pest.

There's a whole world of memetics if we incorporate disease!

I need support for this guys. Firaxis will think it too politically incorrect and itwould be a shame and a historical mistake.

 

[gingermick]

I agree mate, in the book "What If..." or "more What If..." It is argued that Christianity would not have happened if a small tribe called "The Jews" did not break their mountaintop siege by poisoning the water supply of their be-siegers. (great set of books BTW)

 

[Rusty Edge]

Is this getting read by Sid's court? Is someone collecting the valuable ideas and making, and depuring lists? Every company values customer's feedback best.

New idea:
Strategic alliance aren't very cooperative, for example if I have a stack of units in the German coast, even though we are both at war with Lizzie, I can't ask them to just borrow me a transport for a single turn.

CIV 4 has the nice useless thing of being able to give away your units to the enemy.
Can't, not military units, but workers and transport be RENTED for number of turns?

If the borrowed units get killed during the time of the lease, you have the choice to pay back their cost or just let it be depending on the level of "cooperation" of your "friend".

Are you from the Upper MidWest?

 

[Alsannodor]

Well, after long thinking here are some things that MUST with a capital "m" be in CiV (ya know, that's what the logo should look like ;D) :

1.Difference between architectural and cultural wonders:
Any of you had the "Ehhh... right." feeling when having to build the National Epic or Heroic Epic? Or even better the Ramayana in Civilization: Call to Power from Activision? And the first two get a bonus from marble - must be some really hard covers... XD Well, this could be made alot more realistic by a means Firaxis came up with already - the founding fathers system from Civ 4 : Colonization. Notice how they can be recruited by acquiring a certain amount of points, be they religious, trade, political or military? Well, in Civ 5 they should revive the culture score count from Civ 3 only with a far more practical purpose - once a civilization gathers up a certain amount of culture they can create/found/"build" a cultural wonder like each's own national epic or a game adaptation of a world-renowned cultural achievement. Unless it'll make the game too complicated maybe Civ 5 should also feature several scores , like in Civ4:Col , and acquire military points from war, religious points from conversions and building temples etc. and be able to get bonuses if they reach a certain amount (like, say, a collective bonus for all military units etc.) In fact it should be exactly like the founding fathers system - each time you reach an amount you can choose to either get a cheaper bonus or strive further for something more lucrative, but if the bonus or wonder is one-of-a-kind somebody can get it first just like if you won't recruit some founding father, somebody else will.

2.Horse + spear + armour:
It's been exactly ten years since the release of Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri and no other Firaxis game has since featured the unit creation option offered there. I mean it is SO fit for Civ - units could be customizable and consist of parts, more of which are discoverred during the game. For instance from the very beginning you have a basis for your unit designs - footman. By adding features like tools you could make a worker. After discovering hunting you can arm him with a spear, discover archery and you can give 'im a bow (arrows not included ;D), once you get to metalworking you can cover him in armor and put a sword in his hands - that'll do the trick. But there's more - tame horses and you get a new base - horseman. Without anything, just a good scout, but if you arm him with a spear and good armor you get a knight. Fascinating! And it goes on and on like that. Depending on the situation you could go for speed at the expense of good chainmail or instead go to battle in a hulk of a tank, the basis of which will be available with the combustion engine. Fun, i'n' it? This would abolish the unique unit feature , but the better - by adding skills and equipment, nations can create just the "unique" units they need without being influenced by their real-world counterparts.

3.To each their own:
Not that I'd find it offensive, but simulating 7 real-life religions by making them available with certain techs just ain't my cup of tea. Didn't hundreds of other religions thrive during the classical age? And what about polytheism - did the romans borrow it from the indians? Nah. It should be like this - every civilization starts with an individual religion that they can develope and flourish with. How about calling it after their civilization, per say the Malinese or English faiths. ;D For political reasons at one point or another a smaller civ would convert to the religion of a greater one and then they'd share a religion , improving their relations. Or, in a more popular form, you'd convert newly conquerred lands to your view of the world. The temple graphics could be culture-specific. Ofcourse the creation of new religions shouldn't be ignored, but I was just pointing out that everybody shouldn't start out as atheists... XD

I'll think of more things later.

 

[Phatkarp]

I really like your (1) and (2).

 

[rysmiel]

1.Difference between architectural and cultural wonders:
Any of you had the "Ehhh... right." feeling when having to build the National Epic or Heroic Epic? Or even better the Ramayana in Civilization: Call to Power from Activision? And the first two get a bonus from marble - must be some really hard covers... XD Well, this could be made alot more realistic by a means Firaxis came up with already - the founding fathers system from Civ 4 : Colonization. Notice how they can be recruited by acquiring a certain amount of points, be they religious, trade, political or military? Well, in Civ 5 they should revive the culture score count from Civ 3 only with a far more practical purpose - once a civilization gathers up a certain amount of culture they can create/found/"build" a cultural wonder like each's own national epic or a game adaptation of a world-renowned cultural achievement. Unless it'll make the game too complicated maybe Civ 5 should also feature several scores , like in Civ4:Col , and acquire military points from war, religious points from conversions and building temples etc. and be able to get bonuses if they reach a certain amount (like, say, a collective bonus for all military units etc.) In fact it should be exactly like the founding fathers system - each time you reach an amount you can choose to either get a cheaper bonus or strive further for something more lucrative, but if the bonus or wonder is one-of-a-kind somebody can get it first just like if you won't recruit some founding father, somebody else will.

I like the totting up different sorts of points notion, but I'm inclined to think that the distinction you;re looking for is kind of already there - that the points should tot up for Great People, and that Wonders should stay things you build. I'd

It's been exactly ten years since the release of Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri and no other Firaxis game has since featured the unit creation option offered there. I mean it is SO fit for Civ - units could be customizable and consist of parts, more of which are discoverred during the game.

I really strongly don't want to have to do this; I far prefer fixed units, and if you want more variety, more kinds of fixed units.

Nah. It should be like this - every civilization starts with an individual religion that they can develope and flourish with. How about calling it after their civilization, per say the Malinese or English faiths. ;D For political reasons at one point or another a smaller civ would convert to the religion of a greater one and then they'd share a religion , improving their relations. Or, in a more popular form, you'd convert newly conquerred lands to your view of the world.

I'm also strongly opposed to this one. More religions, sure, but it seems to me to destroy most of the point of religions if they become essentially culture by another name.

 

[rysmiel]

You may be onto something, as this could resolve the Arab-Israeli wars with a simple dance contest.

Feel qualified for U.N. Secretary General candidacy.

Yes, this would be ever so much less "realistic" than taking a city by bombarding half a dozen riflemen to death and then just walking in.

 

[Alsannodor]

In other words, the weakness of ZoCs in Civ3 is one of the many factors which make offensive units and strategies so much more powerful than defensive ones.

Ironic how it fits Genral Patton's words in Dominatrix's signature.