the deficite of Civ VI Total Conversions

dcp

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
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(Great) Total Conversions dont just elaborate the (FXS devs) original spectrum, but progress beyond any (of FXS) vision. (Great) Total Conversions install a new context in the original gameplay by universally advancing strenghts and re-designing flaws, not necessarily (but often) in a new (or at least alternative) narrative frame.

(Great) Total Conversions like Fall From Heaven II, Star Trek, History In The Making, Super Power, Civilisation Nights, Faerun etc. r not simple updates, enhancements, overhauls, but feel like a new release. (personally the majority were more fun than the original.)
but all of these r Civ IV and V exclusive, while Civ VI has a mere Ice and Fire, Relive WW, JFD Rule with Faith which rnt Total Conversions, but overhauls, as they dont alter the core elements (tech tree etc.) universally.

y the decline of Total Conversion in Civ VI?
has the modding community lost interest in Civ VI? due to (modding) difficulty, complexity, more uninspiring?

on a personal note: i was more hyped for a new TC from the god of mods Sucritact than Vanilla release... still hoping for more than UI and Civs, but my eternal gratitude anyways for the weeks on Faerun)
 
No DLL source code (yet) and relative lack of gameplay methods in scripts are obstacles to the creation of Total Conversions.

Maybe in 1-2 years, if there are still modders interested in civ6 then...
 
To understand some of the issues have a read of this thread.
 
thx, informative read (sometimes i wish to have played less Kaiser and Pirates instead of advancing Basic further than if-then).

in summary:
FXS mod support was problematic (ie unstable asset pre-viewer) from release (no workshop support was already a bad omen), but develops promisingly, major issue being the not yet released source code (crucial for TC). FXS is aware and delivered already some appreciated QoL-upgrades. the (unofficial) ETA on source code is 2020, maybe after the speculated third xpac (its going to be Metropolis, cuz Civ VI primary focus is the diversification of City development), so TCs r lightyears (2022-23) away.
mod community is alive and positive about modding potential, but also (understandably) hesitant due to learning investment (complexity) and further (customer) demand, as Civ V is more popular and within the speculated timeframe for TCs Civ VII is more realistic.
 
I think that there's nothing stopping people from doing TC now, they just have to be very creative with it, and be prepared for patches breaking things. For one, the fact that we now have ability to change terrain graphics is a huge milestone that I don't think we really ever got in Civ 5, also, are there any massive Civ 5 TCs?
 
We can do total reskins, true, graphic moddability is one of the strength of civ6 modding, but my civ5 WWII TC that was started long before civ5 DLL source code was released would be impossible to work on with civ6 current state.
 
I think that there's nothing stopping people from doing TC now, they just have to be very creative with it, and be prepared for patches breaking things. For one, the fact that we now have ability to change terrain graphics is a huge milestone that I don't think we really ever got in Civ 5, also, are there any massive Civ 5 TCs?

I would say that by the standards of Civ 4 (FFH2, Dune Wars, Final Frontier, Planetfall, etc) there are no true Total Conversions for Civ 5. Faerun probably got closest. The graphics side of things is more mod-able in Civ VI over Civ V but until the DLL source comes the gameplay side is more restricted.
 
I would say that by the standards of Civ 4 (FFH2, Dune Wars, Final Frontier, Planetfall, etc) there are no true Total Conversions for Civ 5. Faerun probably got closest. The graphics side of things is more mod-able in Civ VI over Civ V but until the DLL source comes the gameplay side is more restricted.

I do think you can get somewhat creative with the LUA if you know how tbh. We now can attach values on objects and attach modifiers to said objects.
 
Yep, but I feel that I've exhausted almost all my creativity on civ6 Lua...

I had a lot more freedom in civ5 without any modifiers and BEFORE the DLL source code was released thanks to a few dozen additional methods/events to hook on for gameplay in Lua than with civ6 despite its hundreds of modifiers and its near infinite possible combinations on various objects.

That said, directly attaching modifiers via Lua is a great long-requested addition, detaching would be welcome (unless attaching modifiers and its opposite a hundred times is cost less on allocated computer resources...), and different objects than those we could use fake buildings on for the same result (ie player/cities) would be more useful.
 
I guess it's not exactly a total conversion, but I did play a pretty good mod of middle earth map with like 10 lord of the rings based civs. I'm sure you can find it on steam workshop
 
after a quick skip tru Civ V modpacks (its been a long time) i must partially agree with @Deliverator, overall Civ IV inspired more and diverse TCs. but i disagree with the statement of Civ V having no true (or "massive") TCs, but overhauls. Faerun is a true TC, as those r too:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/blizzard-allstars.522685/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/allstars-of-the-three-kingdoms.529239/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/heroes-of-might-and-wisdom.509427/

so whats a true (and GREAT) Total Conversion? as explicitly stated in the intro of my OP the difference between an overhaul (enhancement etc) and a TC is not simply a diversification (or application like Sucritacts Events and Decisions) of original gameplay, but context. all quoted mods, esp. the fabulous Faerun attach a new layer to gameplay (i.e. heroes, magic, remember Master of Magic?) and alter the original context of the test of time into not just simply an alternative narrative frame, but a "different" game. FFHII may be 4X, but it is no longer a mere Civ IV mod, it rlly is worthy to be ackknowledged as a Stand-Alone, as the original Day Z mod no longer was Arma (and finally got AAA gold).

but @Deliverator is right in his conclusion of a decline of TCs since Civ V, Civ VI not simply continuing, but finalizing this downtrend (as there r no TCs).
so the initial question still stands indicated, but unresolved - y this decline?

some hints do allow to at least speculate about a modding/TC fatigue, due to "complicated" mod support by FXS, but my personal conclusion is the overall progression fatigue in the brands development. Civ VI has been overall received positively, but many (professional) authors warned to expect the gameplay range of a fully DLC`d Civ V.
which isnt true at all, cuz Civs/leaders r more diverse, specified, as is Diplo, City management etc. - and all those changes within the minimalism redux priority, that made Civ V (in comparision to the amount of micromanagement in Civ IV, i recall a FFHII Calabim game where late-game turns averaged 30 mins) outstandingly great (sometimes less is more!). in my opinion Civ VI is the best, most iterated, most diverse Civ in history.
this fatigue now applies to an overall shift in the whole (gaming, aka THE) industry, where the influx of the next gen of gamers (and devs btw) altered the overall values to adapt to the sociocultural changes. the next gens preference r determined by mobiles (id like to reference them as the Smart Generation), Candy Crush is King.
mobile games r to be played on the go and everywhere, the average gaming time splits over the day. Pokemon Go is a premium example for a mobile game, as it blends in geotracking, focussing on the mobile aspect a true rolemodel for future mobiles.
also Battle Royal, originating of the DayZ (and deeper DM) idea, Plunkbat, Fortnite etc. as the former hype LoL - all those r quick and highly accessible games (for a short attention span btw, which is a reaction to the global informational overkill in post 2k pop-culture), as Civ (and esp. modding) require some "cognitive" (aka learning) investment.
as WoWs talent and class-balance redesign was a brillant adaption of the changes in userbase, which ensured its survival (while hardcore IPs like Wildstar failed).
also the predecessor generation (of gamers) has not simply matured (fun has no age?) as the average gamer was already 31 in 2k (and male white btw, but the industry or at least their PR press worked rolemodely hard to diversify), but shifted in consume preferences. Which also indicates a fatigue.

as the decline in TCs and overall modding indicates a loss of interest, Civ grew from a premium IP into a niche.
the brand has to do more than just Civ, Civ VII has to progress far beyond the original formulae or it may be the last release (rethorically stretched).

/edit for better understanding of the very stretched "potential last release" claim and overall reference to consume fatigue:
i played em all, from Ascendendy, MOO, Lords of the Realm to up-to-date title like Stellaris, Endless Legends and Space 1-2 etc (as RPGs, DivinityOS 2 and Pathfinder Kingmaker being noteworthy CRPGs evolution peaks), but most i wouldnt play again. i may take a retro trip to Civ3 or Drakensang, but i mastered all of them, like WoW. Game Over isnt even sad, cuz its been a good time and iam looking forward to fresh input on those, for the next iteration.
but it has to be fresh, something new. (i wont elaborate on the specifics now)

thats what i like on (Great) TCs, they r like the next step in evolution, a new, and often better version.
 
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I feel like it's necessary (even though it probably isn't) to point out that Anno Domini is a thing in Civ VI. So that's one TC.
 
Although I recognize that TC mods (really, all mods) are labors of love for the mod authors, another possible reason for the decline in TC mods for Civ V (and now VI) is the explosion of "strategy" titles in the last 10+ years, including an astonishingly wide range of grand strategy and tactical war games, 4X games, city-builder/empire-management games, survival games, etc. (some of which are great, although most are crap). I can only imagine how hard it is for a games developer (AAA or indy) to design a distinctive offering amidst all of that market noise, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was even more difficult for a mod author (or team) to summon the enthusiasm to pursue a major TC mod that may never get noticed the way old Civ IV mods got noticed (and played).
 
I feel like it's necessary (even though it probably isn't) to point out that Anno Domini is a thing in Civ VI. So that's one TC.
Indeed, but maybe not fitting the OP description.
 
I have found this to be an issue with many different games across multiple genres. I think the type of player who likes making mods is naturally going to be attracted to games with the most support for modding. Civ VI has not been one of those games thus far.
 
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