The Dromon

[General Porkins]

The Dromon is rediculous...they are too effective at bombarding and allowed a fellow player to traverse the entire world and conquer everything in his path without even losing one unit...The land bombard capabilities must be either completely revoked or toned down severely. It doesnt make sense that a fire ship could bombard units in a city. That is just rediculous. It isnt even logical. They dont have the range to do that. The dromon needs to be changed!!

*I have no problems with their capabilities at sea...they should be completely dominant in that area. What bothers me is that they can use Greek Fire to bombard land squares. Fire ships simply could not do this, as Greek Fire could not be projected over such long distances (no more than a few hundred yards)... Now I havent been to many coastal cities in my life, but I doubt that they are built on stilts in the water...

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

2 weeks ago, EVERYONE except the beta testers kept whinning how useless naval UUs (or better, any naval units aside from a few transports) are, and demnaded Knight replacements, now the Dromon should be overpowered?

It is by no means overpowered. Just avoid them. If they keep bombarding an important coastal tile, garrison it. If they sink your ships, well, that's why you built the Great Lighthouse, and play a SEA Civ, right?

 

[rabies]

I have not played as the byzantine yet.
...BUT ...i am in the middle of a game as the mayans with the Byzantine on a island just north of me. I just finished invading them...and I must say that I learned to fear the Droman - even under AI use.

 

[statusperfect]

Blast them with catapults :evilgrin:

 

[thestonesfan]

A lot of UU's are overpowering. Greece is next to invincible in the ancient age. Persia can overrun nearly everyone. The Cossack has blitz.

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

Ships bombarding cities is reasonable. After all, they are coastal cities, therefore a ship could reasonably bombard it. And it is not like it has lethal land bombard.

 

[Arrian]

I don't think it's overpowered at all. I'll have to play them soon to test it out a bit, but on the face of it I don't really get how its too strong when compared to, say, the Mounted Warrior or the Rider, or the Immortal.

The only contact I've had with the Dromon is via my Privateers. I tried sinking a caravel that had a Dromon escort, and the Dromon landed a bombard shot on my Privateer. The Caravel won without losing a hp. Then another Privateer of mine caught a Dromon out alone, sank it, and enslaved it Now I have a replacement for my first one.

-Arrian

 

[Stefanskantine]

The Dromon is not at all overpowered. It is merely another powerful unique unit (and by definition unique units should be powerful) in the tradition of the Immortal, Hoplite, Numidian Infantry, and Beserker. Also, ancient warships bombarded the land all the time, by means of catapults and arrows. Any bombard unit should be effective in large numbers in the game. Finally, naval power has been underpowered in Civ3 for so long it is about time for a shift in the direction of some powerful naval units. The Dromon should keep its powers!

You say Greek Fire should not affect cities, but the Dromon's land bombard animation is that of a catapult. It is perfectly reasonable for an ancient ship to bombard cities by means of a catapult.

 

[General Porkins]

In that case all boats should have the capability to bombard...but they should need an archer or catapult unit on them to do so...

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

Originally posted by General Porkins
In that case all boats should have the capability to bombard...but they should need an archer or catapult unit on them to do so...

No they shouldn't. Then the dromon would lose its uniqueness. The point of Greek Fire was to launch it from the boat at enemies. What they should do is get rid of the dromon and give us a cataphract

 

[triCritical]

Originally posted by General Porkins
Now I havent been to many coastal cities in my life, but I doubt that they are built on stilts in the water...

Take a look at some pictures of current day Istanbul, it practically does go to the water edge. Given Constantinople had HUGE walls...

Anyhow I am on the side that ships in Civ3 are for the most part very underpowered. Increase in speeds and firepower, IMHO, are alway welcomed. I think fixing the dromon to be more historically accurate should then open the book to fixing ALL the units to being more historically accurate.

 

[General Porkins]

Originally posted by SuperBeaverInc.


No they shouldn't. Then the dromon would lose its uniqueness. The point of Greek Fire was to launch it from the boat at enemies. What they should do is get rid of the dromon and give us a cataphract

I didnt mean for other boats to have ship to ship bombard capabilities, but to have land bombard capabilities because those do not involve greek fire

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by SuperBeaverInc.


No they shouldn't. Then the dromon would lose its uniqueness. The point of Greek Fire was to launch it from the boat at enemies. What they should do is get rid of the dromon and give us a cataphract

I agree, I am not a supporter of the Dromon as the Byzantine UU,as I would MUCH prefer the cataphract get that spot, but since the dromon is the Byzantine UU, I see no reson to tone down the single trait that makes the unit good- ships are a VERY weak position in the game- all the more reason to make the UUs in that area strong

 

[Ben E Gas]

Leave the unit be.

 

[Gogf]

Look, did people complain like this when PTW came out over the Berserk? This is just a good unit. Of course, a strong Cataprhacy would be better though.

 

[Stefanskantine]

Originally posted by Gogf
Look, did people complain like this when PTW came out over the Berserk? This is just a good unit. Of course, a strong Cataprhacy would be better though.

Exactly. What is more overpowering: a ship with bombardment abilities about equal to a mere catapult, or an amphibious assaulting beast with 6 attack at the start of the middle ages? The Berserk by the way still does not even require iron. What is that axe he has made out of? Wood? The Dromon is a powerful unit, sure, but it's by no means unbalanced compared to other powerful units.

Porkins, perhaps in the MP game you are referencing, your opponent's skill was what allowed him to make such extensive conquests.

 

[pawpaw]

Originally posted by Xen


I agree, I am not a supporter of the Dromon as the Byzantine UU,as I would MUCH prefer the cataphract get that spot, but since the dromon is the Byzantine UU, I see no reson to tone down the single trait that makes the unit good- ships are a VERY weak position in the game- all the more reason to make the UUs in that area strong

the xen-phract speaking in favor of the dromon but in seroiusness, if it bombards with catapults then all galleys should too. this would not hurt the dromon as it would still remain dominating at sea verus the other galleys of its time

 

[BabyDragon]

I love dromon as well as Byzantine.

I think dromon not need a change.

 

[kokoras]

As many of you said,there are some U.U that looks more like monsters than simply good units!Berseck,Numidian Mercenary...etc.But the fact remains that it is good for the game to have these U.U.There are 32 civs,which means that we can choose the dificulty of the opponents.The dromon is another small monster but since it is the third(i think)ships as a U.U i like that it is that strong...Someone must rule the seas... Dromon...

 

[King Alexander]

I don't think that it shoud be changed. After all, that is what UU is all about: a Unique Unit... Many civs have their advantages early on from their UU's. It takes a little more tactical/strategy on how and when to defeat those civs.