The Emin Pasha Relief Expedition

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Easy now! It'll take some time just yet, before there's a playtest version finished. Much work still to be done....

 

[kobayashi]

Morten,

I just discovered something new to use in Civ2 (which isn't very common nowadays) that may apply to your scenario.

It seems that odd/even or even/odd coordinates do not exist on the map but exist in the program. So if you use an event to create an AI unit of 0 move in these locations, they can still exert a ZOC on your human units from their 'sub-space' location. A much better solution than invisible units since they can't be attacked accidently and a guide unit with ignore ZOC can bring troops across a blocked zone.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Interesting... The only way to place them is events, right?

 

[Marko]

Good idea, Kob!
I have never tried to create units there on purpose..

Units from normal map can enter to another dimensions via "uncorrect" moveunit orders. They can move there around and in some cases can even attack "normal" units. "Normal" units can never attack them. "Another dimension" looks like a map without cities and terrain improvements. But with settlers you can create cities etc there. Only problem is that the map view is quite uncomfortable.

Morten:
If you want to have them in certain places then the easiest way is what Kob said - create 0-move units with events.

 

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Morten Blaabjerg
Interesting... The only way to place them is events, right?

Barbarian cities in the twilight zones (as they where called by Nemo) can be used for area names (I use this a lot in some un-finnished scenario projects of mine, in these cases, the name shows (in the barbarian colour) but the city is invisible (and impossible to conquer), you'd better make sure that the city isn't building units though) other than this though there is really no use for them (since ZoC from these units wont quite work as the ones from normal units).
Oh and I've got better ways of placing units in those zones, but I think its a bug in the mac version of civ (but after being placed they work fine for the PC as well as the mac), so if you want I can place them for you.

 

[Henrik]

Example from my unfinnished wheel of time scenario(which I was working on as a side project to my European Empires project for a while) :

 

[Prometeus]

Originally posted by kobayashi
Morten,

I just discovered something new to use in Civ2 (which isn't very common nowadays) that may apply to your scenario.

It seems that odd/even or even/odd coordinates do not exist on the map but exist in the program. So if you use an event to create an AI unit of 0 move in these locations, they can still exert a ZOC on your human units from their 'sub-space' location. A much better solution than invisible units since they can't be attacked accidently and a guide unit with ignore ZOC can bring troops across a blocked zone.

Capperi!!!! this really a great news!!!!

Edit:

Originally posted by jasev

This isn't new... Captain Nemo used it in "Red Front" to insert russian units behind german lines. Nobody could put units to avoid the insertion because the tiles didn't exist.

Sorry...

 

[Henrik]

As I said before, those ZoC wont work as normal ZoC, and as I recall Nemo never actually used it, although he was the one to discover it.

 

[kobayashi]

I haven't done any proper testing but I am sure there is ZOC. Just play the attached scenario as russians and try to move your warrior upwards from Mosciw when the scenario begins.

 

[Henrik]

Yup, if you move the unit north from 55,29 you cant go north (55,27) (or northeast), but if you move the unit to 54,28 and then 55,27 you will have abolished the ZoCs, try moving south after moving the unit into 55,27 and you will see that it now has no problems going north.

 

[kobayashi]

If you lined up many hidden units side by side so they can't be 'flanked', will it work?

 

[Henrik]

Probably, im not sure though.
What about when you reach a "border" ei a shore/end of the world, wouldn't it be impossible to place ZoCs at such a place as these zones affect in a "tilted manner".

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Any ideas on how to get ships past land squares without the use of settlers?

The thing is, the expedition had a transportable boat, which could be carried in sections across land, and assembled again when they came to navigable waters. So it would be carried past the cataracts and difficult streams and then assembled and used.

Does the disband order trigger destroyed-unit events? It would be nice if it did. I'd have to test that. [edit : It doesn't]

Maybe a special unit being destroyed at a landing place, triggering a changeterrain event and a createunit event... I don't think I can make it buildable, since there's no way then to prevent the player from building more than one of these boats... (he gets canoes which can be built in numbers).

 

[Henrik]

Can domain 3 units carry other units over water?
If they can that would be a solution (that is unless they can carry them over land as well, in which case they could go sailing up into the jungle )

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

I heard about that phenomena before... but I don't know exactly what they're good for. I'll try and experiment. Otherwise I will do it the oldfashioned way. Place a number of cities at the right spots, which the player will have to take, in order to get past the cataracts. I use this concept in other places too. One downside to this is that steamers can get past the cataracts too, which I still have to think about...

 

[Henrik]

0=land 1=sea 2=air (I think)
3=Can move over all terrain (all moves cost 1 move point no matter of the terrain type) kind of like an air unit, but has no range or fuel or anything like that.
Basicly all terrain is available to it, I was guessing that while over water it would be able to carry units, kind of a long shot, but its worth trying.
A unit thats movable over land and can carry other units over water, sounds kind of like what you needed. (if it works)

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

It doesn't work. Other units just fall asleep and the boat flies away. Do you know how domain 3 units work with barbarians? Can they use them? Do they attack? Perhaps they can be used for another purpose.

btw, domain 1=air, 2=sea.

 

[Boco]

It probably has too many limitations to work in this context, but maybe it'll spark an idea. Why not give the portable boat the paratrooper flag? Build cities within para range of the square beyond the cataracts, but not on them. Then the boat could get beyond it, but not the steamers.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Thats a brilliant idea! Now why didn't I think of that! Wow! That's EXACTLY what I need. This way, "The Advance" will really be important to the expedition and not just a second rate boat. Super!

BTW, the scen is coming around very nicely. Its looking really good (much better than the preliminary version I sent you), and the strategy/atmosphere is about right.

I decided to constrain the player to the expedition only, and the map is much more focused now (constrained to the congo-aruwimi rivers and the regions around the great lakes). So stay tuned.

 

[Boco]

I can't find an english translation of PH's verse. All I can guess is that a kitten just changed ownership. Can you give a clue about "vejen" and "sgu'"?

I suspect the para boat trick originated with Nemo, but I learned it from Case. Btw, if the cataracts are particularly rough, perhaps you could arrange for a weak enemy fighter unit to be in range for an intercept. I can't figure out how to get the fighter at the right place at the right time, though.

Glad to hear of the progress...you've got us hooked. Shrinking the playing area should help make the scen much more managable. That mega-map from coast to coast and the Sudan to Zimbadwe was beautiful, but it would have taken forever to fill with units and events.