The Emin Pasha Relief Expedition

Originally posted by Boco

I suspect the para boat trick originated with Nemo, but I learned it from Case.

I got it from Nemo, but I *think* that someone else came up with it before him.

The only problem I see with the paradropping ship, is that players will use it every turn, and not just when they're meant to use it. Perhaps you could place fighter type units everywhere but near the rapids?

That mega-map from coast to coast and the Sudan to Zimbadwe was beautiful, but it would have taken forever to fill with units and events.

I'll second that, and add that the entire modpack you put out was fantastic. If the scenario is even half as good as your artwork and map then it will be a classic. :goodjob:
 
Thanx for the compliments, guys! :D There's still a couple of problems, but its coming along quite neatly. One of my major concerns is how/if the expedition should get settlers to set up their own camps (as it is, they camp if you press 'f') or just have to conquer cities along the way (which they did big time anyway). I think they'll get a couple, and then more if they do particularly well later on. They should have the choice between using their very expensive and rare settlers and making war (with mounting losses).

BTW, is there a way to limit the range of paradrops below 5? -As it is, I can't seem to get it below 5, which is a tad bit too liberal considering the move of the boat (and my constrained map). I can't have the player paradropping "outside" the scenario. This will spoil the illusion big time. I'll have to make sure the boat can only get to reasonable places, which of course is more difficult if I provide the expedition with settlers. :rolleyes:

That fighter trick sounds like a good idea. Perhaps I can use them to constrain the course of the boat. I am using barbarian air units big time anyway, as obstacles and hazards (mosquito's, storms etc.). Also I might have to make sure that camping in jungle squares means a very shortlived camp.

Boco:
I can't find an english translation of PH's verse. All I can guess is that a kitten just changed ownership. Can you give a clue about "vejen" and "sgu'"?

Vejen means "the road" and sgu means something like "damn". I guess a bad translation would be something like "Little cat, little cat, little cat on the road, whose are you? whose are you? -I'm my own god damn!"
 
What do you think about the new waterish look? In one way I think it is more fitting, since the rivers in Central Africa are far from blue in the rainy season. On the other hand, the blue simply looked more colorful.
 

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Comparatively soon, I gather. However, it will probably require extensive testing to make sure goals are feasible and the "tricks" work the way they're intended. But the "tech tree" is still not finished, and I'm not through placing cities etc.'

I'm placing cities and locations based on the historical maps from the expedition itself, so its getting a quite "accurate" feel to it, but, needless to say, this takes some time too.

It is pretty fun to track down the expedition paths from the original maps, and finding that vast ares are virtually unexplored at the time -which leaves some room for creative interpretations. :D
 
I could still use a couple of ideas. I have sort of come to a halt in the tech tree department. Its taking long to get this sorted out. Plenty of room for creative input. :p

I realize the civ engine never was very good at simulating friendly relations between different nations/tribes. Unstable alliances, caravans, tech-exchanges. This is about it. How for example, can you simulate one tribe bringing another supplies and ammunition for reasons beyond the scope of the scenario? -Or human deterioration in a land where food is scarce and sheer survival becomes the one important thing, permitting all kinds of brutality?

I am still working around things like this. As it is I am working from a simple objective-scoring motivation. The more egyptian stations that are "evacuated" i.e. conquered, the higher scoring.

Other ideas are vital wonders, that go obsolete, some that can be built underway; vital units so costly that other units must be sacrificed in order to build them. But I'd like to avoid too complicated non-standard solutions for accessibility and playability reasons.

Does any of you have ideas or examples from scenarios of how to simulate stuff like limited ammunition supplies, "regression" rather than development, etc.? Then I could use some input. I'll get it worked out eventually, but any ideas would be welcome. :D
 
Here's a couple of new porter units, along with a native chief. I really like the middle unit; the way he's dragging his feet under the weight of the heavy load of ammunition is really neat. He was made from a drawing in Stanleys book on the expedition, so his appearance is pretty directly from the sources. The first porter unit was rescaled from a picture of a colonial wargame model.
 

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I'm using that, for the player is allied to the belgians. The belgian stations were very much intended as such "resthouses" for travellers (until they became brutal centres of exploitation of the area, that is). But in my scenario there hasn't been much need for them, first because the real hazards starts only when the expedition comes into areas beyond belgian influence, and second because ships cannot be healed by allies (or am I wrong?).

But you sparked a little backwards thinking for me. Maybe the stations really were quite important to the relative success of the expedition in these parts. So I might well put in a couple of really nasty encounters, where the player will really need 'rest' and healing, in order not to be delayed. This could make 'pushing forward' a viable alternative to more careful play.
 
Originally posted by W.i.n.t.e.r
Nice shots !!! Nice scenario topic too, loks like somebody likes colonial history- I presume... ?

:cooool:

ps. LOOOOOOOVE the watery pic !!!!!!!!

I know, I know ! I'm repeating myself. But its true: I really like the looks of what U R creating there (Waterfall *gasp* Wadafoll... Wodafillall)....
 
Sorry to pester, but when do you think this will be out? :) It looks great!
 
Like I said before, in a couple of weeks... ;)

Seriously, its on the road, but I'm taking it quite slow. I know the next part of the process will really require extensive testing, before I can finally finish the playtest version. I'm gonna have to do map changes, barb cities, techs and events along the way, as I work my way through the expedition path(s) and thinking out alternative player options, shortcuts etc. But I have the basic tech and map/city setup.

The feel of this scenario will much be like a race against the clock, where every delay could mean failure. So I have to be very careful from the outset, so I will have to do less work after playtesting. So lets say a month or so, before its finished. Could be longer, before I'm completely satisfied.
 
Decided on a few new graphics, including new irrigation, and native women and children to be captured as guides for the expedition (able to pass ZOC's in the jungle). Placed most of the cities now, still needs to figure out about improvements and barb/native civs.

I'm seriously considering to keep all native tribes barbarian. Barbarians can only produce one unit per city, and proud hill warriors won't appear in the middle of the forest (unless they go there). And manyuema warriors won't appear all over the place, but can be restricted to the Congo region, which they should.

The downside to this, of course, is that peace can nowhere be negotiated with the natives, except by force. In fact, the expedition encountered lots of resistance, but usually just the display of power would provoke peace negotiations (blood brotherhood). This won't be possible with barbs, unfortunately. Events might help to make this reasonable in some way, however. I think the advantages are greater, making the natives much more easy to control. They never did were great empire builders, in any case, so its a perfectly reasonable solution.

Any suggestions for the extra available tribe? It doesn't have to be used, of course. So far the tribes are Expedition, Belgians, Germans, Mahdist, Arab Traders, and the Egyptian equatorial province.

Right now, I am taking a deep breath to make sure all native cities and obstacles are in place, before taking the big step to convert all these to barb cities (there must be 30-40+). The thing is, I can't really begin to place units and improvements and adjust variables, before the barbs are in place. Otherwise I risk losing a lot of work, when the AI moves. So I better make sure I got everything covered. Also, I need to be pretty sure about all of my units and their respective sound slots.... which I am not yet.

So it seems Mr.Stanley has come to halt. There's still lots of work to be done. But what has been done is looking very promising, and the script for the events and encounters is considerably well underway.

Comments?
 
Any suggestions for the extra available tribe?
How about Nature? Then diseases and animals could be more of a surprise. If you already have a mechanism for that, then maybe your idea of a 'nonsavage' tribe would be good. That would allow intertribal conflict.

Have you worked out a way to handle loss or consumption of supplies (he asks with a little self-interest;) )?
 
I've come to the conclusion that the more basic the solution, usually the better. Everything in the civ2 engine evolves around the cities and the terrains, so the more you can simulate using the cities and city/terrain improvements -and their effects on happiness, income/economy, science, trade etc. the better. Much better than units. In civ2, units are actually only the surplus of a society used to build a military. So if you need to simulate constraints on the military, point one, economy should be bad.

I've solved the "supply problem" so far with a combination of really bad terrain, a lousy economy, and severely limited government (despotism).

Jungles have no food, yet some particularly productive spots (firewood). The expedtion will need to found a few stations, or alternatively conquer villages/cities to get money for research. Without research they won't get more of the units they need to get past certain obstacles (like move pass ZOC's in difficult parts of the jungle). The terrain is slow and mostly poor, and units are quite vulnerable to sudden attacks. The tricky part will be finding spots which are productive enough, while able to supply food without constant civil disorder and starvation (things nicely covered in the engine), and provide defensive strongpoints. The more aggressively the player plays, the more units will be lost, and the greater the need for production. Building ones own camps will probably be more productive than conquering each and every city on the way, since the expedition lacks the techs that make temples etc work, so there'll be massive disorder, which must be disciplined first. ;)

Porters are very expensive units, that can be disbanded for production. But they are unbuildable, limiting their supply to those given from the outset, and they will be much needed for new forces once the expedition reach the objective cities. I still have to figure out during playtesting which unit attributes are needed, to make it desirable to keep the porters as long as possible. But the "arrival" of the expedition triggers the rifleman tech, that allows riflemen to be built.

Units that can be built underway (depending on techs gained), are local escorts (of different sorts), steamers, canoes, captive women & children (pathfinders), interpreters (spies), and when the expedition arrives, riflemen and irregular troops to take the objective stations... "persuade them to be rescued" ;)

I still use barbs and barb cities for the unusual encounters, but they are something that are met with suddenly and must be dealt with, not something you see move about on the map. I'm using the invisible city trick, and giving them very short range and high defences. So that it can be quite lethal to move around in the jungle without left-clicking every square before one proceeds. :D -of course, cities and units make a ZOC, so they might be discovered that way too, but "in the path" so to speak they'll hopefully be a surprise!

Maybe you can use some of these ideas?
 
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