The Enlightenment Era

[arkham4269]

Two issues. The first is after trying a few games, I suddenly lost the ability to create plantations. I've tuned off almost all the mods I might have added since my first games but I still can't get them to work. I even tried to shut this mod off and I'm still not able to build plantations.

Secondly, there are three blanked out buttons on the City Screen right under buy a tile which seem to have no purpose. I've never seen them prior to this mod so I'm cautiously assuming they are part of this mod and maybe are not working because they will in the future or I'm using some mod which is conflicting?

 

[janboruta]

Two issues. The first is after trying a few games, I suddenly lost the ability to create plantations. I've tuned off almost all the mods I might have added since my first games but I still can't get them to work. I even tried to shut this mod off and I'm still not able to build plantations.

Switching mods mid-game will most likely not fix the issue, only aggravate it. I never had issue you describe, I assume it is a mod conflict.

Secondly, there are three blanked out buttons on the City Screen right under buy a tile which seem to have no purpose. I've never seen them prior to this mod so I'm cautiously assuming they are part of this mod and maybe are not working because they will in the future or I'm using some mod which is conflicting?

Are you using JFD's Kingdom of France mod? If so, it's caused by it and you need to use the Community Patch for those buttons to work properly.

 

[arkham4269]

Actually I didn't switch mods during a game but started multiple games with various mods on or off.

And yes, I was playing France. I'm not a big fan of the Community Patch as it tends to interfere with other mods I enjoy playing with. What do they do?

Also in regards to the Plantations, I switched to my administrative account and had all my mods load fresh and I barely used any mods and I still am having the issue. I'm cleaning out my cache and trying that and then I'll see about doing a fresh install of Civ V.

 

[janboruta]

And yes, I was playing France. I'm not a big fan of the Community Patch as it tends to interfere with other mods I enjoy playing with. What do they do?

Those buttons allow you to choose with Cultural Great Person points you would like to get when Louis' unique ability is active. Fairly critical part of the civ. I recommend using the base Community Patch if you get the chance - it has a good number of quality-of-life improvements. The Balance Patch is the one that could cause more incompatibility problems than the base Patch.

 

[arkham4269]

Given that I've done a fresh cache deletion, I will try it with the CP.

Since I'm using that, is the Enlightenment Era mod compatible with JFD's Expanded Explorer's mod? I really want to play it but until recently I realize that one of the problems I was having with certain advanced mods was I was playing on a Vista machine.

Again, I'm really confused why suddenly I can't build plantations. Thanks, BTW, for the info about France; I had been wondering about how my culture points were being used.

I do have one question regarding railroads. Anyone who's play Sid Meier's Railroads knows that they began to have an impact pretty early. It seems that railroads, as the games stands now, has them come too late and are far to cheap to build and maintain. Making them expensive would force limited use and make railroad hubs that much more valuable to attack.

It seems to me that regular roads could be upgraded to highways/autobans later in the modern era. They would be cheaper than railroads but not as fast. I think there should be a balance between unit speed and infrastructure cost.

 

[Pouakai]

That's a bit outside the scope of a mod which just expands the Enlightenment Era though. Other than a few outside changes which are done to better reflect the changes in the Enlightenment (Carrack, moving Gatling Gun to steam power etc) we're leaving things much as they were.

As far as your comment about the 'nonsensical' tech tree, Natan, as is stands in Vanilla you are able to build Frigates, Privateers, and Gatling Guns without Gunpowder, Ironclads and Destroyers without figuring out how Triremes work, and research the Internet without knowing what a Computer is. Researching Steam Power requires you to have already entered the Industrial Revolution, and in order to know how to sail you need to be able to make pots. The tech tree is an abstract, and while historically you would absolutely need gunpowder to build warships, having a prereq which literally crosses the entire tech tree is gameplay-wise a huge mistake, as it prevents you from prioritising relevant techs that you need and instead forces you to just wholesale research the whole tech tree. In an archipelago map I can guarantee you will have more along the top than the bottom researched, and having to delay building a new ship because you have to catch up in the land melee line would just be tedious and boring.

That said, due to public outcry I'm going to roll back the change with Piracy and make it into a modmod for the era, alongside a separate modmod which changes Humanism to Liberalism for anyone that worked up about having an abstract concept in a tech tree with Philosophy and Chivalry.

 

[arkham4269]

So I did a lot and nothing was working until, by chance, I did a Help search for plantations. I noticed that only Belgium's plantation entry showed up. Started a new game without Belgium and suddenly I can build plantations again!

I think the newest update to the Enlightenment Mod somehow conflicts with the Belgium Civ.

 

[LeeS]

I think the newest update to the Enlightenment Mod somehow conflicts with the Belgium Civ.

There does indeed seem to be a conflict between EE and JFD's Belgium. But for the life of me, looking at the code of the two mods, I could not figure out why on earth this is.

 

[Kesler]

That's a bit outside the scope of a mod which just expands the Enlightenment Era though. Other than a few outside changes which are done to better reflect the changes in the Enlightenment (Carrack, moving Gatling Gun to steam power etc) we're leaving things much as they were.

As far as your comment about the 'nonsensical' tech tree, Natan, as is stands in Vanilla you are able to build Frigates, Privateers, and Gatling Guns without Gunpowder, Ironclads and Destroyers without figuring out how Triremes work, and research the Internet without knowing what a Computer is. Researching Steam Power requires you to have already entered the Industrial Revolution, and in order to know how to sail you need to be able to make pots. The tech tree is an abstract, and while historically you would absolutely need gunpowder to build warships, having a prereq which literally crosses the entire tech tree is gameplay-wise a huge mistake, as it prevents you from prioritising relevant techs that you need and instead forces you to just wholesale research the whole tech tree. In an archipelago map I can guarantee you will have more along the top than the bottom researched, and having to delay building a new ship because you have to catch up in the land melee line would just be tedious and boring.

That said, due to public outcry I'm going to roll back the change with Piracy and make it into a modmod for the era, alongside a separate modmod which changes Humanism to Liberalism for anyone that worked up about having an abstract concept in a tech tree with Philosophy and Chivalry.

Thank you for the fact you're trying to accommodate everyone, it's very much appreciated. Does this mean Imperialism will be needed for Navigation? (Or will Navigation be switched with Warships, and then have Imperialism as a pre-req for Warships?)

Even though Piracy will be it's own Mod-mod, I recommend you expand it out a bit more. If it's going to be there, there are definitely features it could expand on for a tech.

 

[Eveljin]

I just tested to only run the EE mod. Still no warmongering penalties ingame. It excludes the mod conflict

 

[JFD]

That said, due to public outcry I'm going to roll back the change with Piracy and make it into a modmod for the era, alongside a separate modmod which changes Humanism to Liberalism for anyone that worked up about having an abstract concept in a tech tree with Philosophy and Chivalry.

That's not the issue, so your sarcasm is misplaced. The issue is the anachronism of Humanism - a Renaissance era philosophy - being in the Enlightenment. Humanism is no more abstract than Liberalism, certrainly.

Also, there was an interesting discussion on Reddit (really), which explained how the Internet can exist without Computers. Sort of like how we can create alternative planes of existence without being able to get there (as we haven't the technology for portals, but we do for the latter). But that's just an interesting aside.

For people not wishing to use said modmod, Humanism will be changed in CCC to Libealism (which can be disabled internally), and the Humanism icon re-used in a Leonardo's Workshop wonder (which can also be disabled).

 

[LeeS]

and the Humanism icon re-used in a Leonardo's Workshop wonder (which can also be disabled).

What!? uh....what!? My sig ..... what!?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Re the Belgium & EE bug with re Plantation build buttons:

This appears to be a problem in EE:

UPDATE Units
SET PrereqTech = null
WHERE Type = 'UNIT_ENGLISH_SHIPOFTHELINE';

or

<Update>
	<Where Type="UNIT_ENGLISH_SHIPOFTHELINE"/>
	<Set>
		<PrereqTech>null</PrereqTech>
		<Cost>-1</Cost>
		<FaithCost>-1</FaithCost>
		<ShowInPedia>false</ShowInPedia>
	</Set>
</Update>

Depending on which of the two files you are actually trying to use, tho from looking at the modinfo file you appear to be using both files. Database log is reporting that the game is interpretting "null" as a technology it should be looking for in the Technologies gametable.

This appears to be a problem in JFD_Belgium

--==========================================================================================================================
-- UnitPromotions_CivilianUnitType
--==========================================================================================================================
INSERT INTO UnitPromotions_CivilianUnitType
		(PromotionType, 				UnitType)
VALUES		('PROMOTION_JFD_BELGIAN_GEOGRAPHIC_CONFERENCE', 'UNIT_SETTLER'),
		('PROMOTION_JFD_BELGIAN_GEOGRAPHIC_CONFERENCE', 'UNIT_JFD_BELGIAN_WORKER'),
		('PROMOTION_JFD_BELGIAN_GEOGRAPHIC_CONFERENCE', 'UNIT_[COLOR="Red"][B]w[/B][/COLOR]ORKER');

Fixing both of these fixes the issue. Full disclosure, though, I am still using V1 of Belgium led by Albert I. My suspicion is that UnitPanel.lua is being broken in some non-obvious way by the technology reference, because the same sort of thing will happen to CityView.lua if a building or unit has a bad prereqtech reference (you get the I can't build anything issue).

 

[Kesler]

It's funny, I just looked at your Leo mod this morning LeeS. I thought you were working with JFD on a new updated one.

 

[kerrigan1603]

That said, due to public outcry I'm going to roll back the change with Piracy and make it into a modmod for the era, alongside a separate modmod which changes Humanism to Liberalism for anyone that worked up about having an abstract concept in a tech tree with Philosophy and Chivalry.

That's not the issue, so your sarcasm is misplaced. The issue is the anachronism of Humanism - a Renaissance era philosophy - being in the Enlightenment. Humanism is no more abstract than Liberalism, certrainly.

Also, there was an interesting discussion on Reddit (really), which explained how the Internet can exist without Computers. Sort of like how we can create alternative planes of existence without being able to get there (as we haven't the technology for portals, but we do for the latter). But that's just an interesting aside.

For people not wishing to use said modmod, Humanism will be changed in CCC to Libealism (which can be disabled internally), and the Humanism icon re-used in a Leonardo's Workshop wonder (which can also be disabled).

since we're on the subject of moving techs back & fourth, may i request Pouakai that you along with the changing of the techs move The Great Fire Wall Of China from computing to the internet, & Pouakai, JFD's right all we're asking is that you replace Humanism with Liberalism & JFD i disagree to get rid of humanism completely, just move it back to The Renaissance.

 

[JFD]

Now, I'm all for adding new techs to slow down progress (lol), but the Renaissance is probably full enough. Humanism could go between Printing Press and X, but I really don't know what you'd put there. Certainly nothing major I could think of.

 

[kerrigan1603]

Now, I'm all for adding new techs to slow down progress (lol), but the Renaissance is probably full enough. Humanism could go between Printing Press and X, but I really don't know what you'd put there. Certainly nothing major I could think of.

i was thinking that you replace Humanism with Liberalism & move Humanism back between Printing Press and X. btw im i the only one who thought its weird that The Great Fire Wall Of China is in computing instead of internet which was why i was asking pouakai.

 

[kaspergm]

As far as your comment about the 'nonsensical' tech tree, Natan, as is stands in Vanilla you are able to build Frigates, Privateers, and Gatling Guns without Gunpowder, Ironclads and Destroyers without figuring out how Triremes work, and research the Internet without knowing what a Computer is. Researching Steam Power requires you to have already entered the Industrial Revolution, and in order to know how to sail you need to be able to make pots. The tech tree is an abstract, and while historically you would absolutely need gunpowder to build warships, having a prereq which literally crosses the entire tech tree is gameplay-wise a huge mistake, as it prevents you from prioritising relevant techs that you need and instead forces you to just wholesale research the whole tech tree.

I agree, what we need really is to someone implement the ability to wrap the tech tree around a cylinder, i.e. make connections from the bottom to the top that goes the other way around, so to speak, than across the entire tech tree. This would really come in handy in a couple of places - most notably obviously Gunpowder > Warships (or Navigation in unmodded), but also Fertilizers > Biology and Computers > Telecommunication would be likely candidates.

 

[Natan35]

My complaint was primary about the armour plating tech....

(And, you don't have to be firaxis)

 

[arkham4269]

I'm not seeing how we can have cruisers before you can have ironclads. If anything I'd expect steam paddlewheel hybrid frigates before being able to build ironclads with cruisers being the next logical vessel.

Again, per my above comments regarding railroads, I think steam needs to be more forward on the tech tree. Also, given how factories (as we know them) were more engine powered and thus needed steam or electricity, having factories early doesn't make sense unless you make an early form of factory which requires a waterwheel which certainly makes historical sense given how that was the big limiting factor on factories was the need for water power. Indeed prior to steam, I'd say textile mills, cloth mills and the like would need a waterwheel prerequisite which would drop away after steam.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I'm not seeing how we can have cruisers before you can have ironclads. If anything I'd expect steam paddlewheel hybrid frigates before being able to build ironclads with cruisers being the next logical vessel.

Sea-going Ironclads, as opposed to 'floating batteries', start appearing in the 1860s in France, UK and USA. The distinction between 'Battle' ironclads and 'cruiser' ironclads starts showing up in the 1870s, or 10 - 15 years later - a short time in Civ terms, but real. Earlier, the addition of steam power to sailing warships had started in the 1840s, and before the Civil War the US Navy had an entire class of ships called 'Steam Frigates' that were conventional sail-era frigates but with steam engines and screw propellors added.
To cover everything, we'd need a 'quick and cheap' Upgrade from Frigate to Steam Frigate, followed by the Ironclad, followed closely by the Cruiser, followed (about 30 years later historically) by the Battleship.

Again, per my above comments regarding railroads, I think steam needs to be more forward on the tech tree. Also, given how factories (as we know them) were more engine powered and thus needed steam or electricity, having factories early doesn't make sense unless you make an early form of factory which requires a waterwheel which certainly makes historical sense given how that was the big limiting factor on factories was the need for water power. Indeed prior to steam, I'd say textile mills, cloth mills and the like would need a waterwheel prerequisite which would drop away after steam.

Agree. The first 'cotton' (mills) factories started in the 1740s in England, powered by water. It wasn't until the perfection of the stationary steam engine in the 1770s that the first steam-powered factories were built, the first being also in England in 1785. The big cloth mills in New England in the USA were almost all originally built on rivers to take advantage of water power and only later converted to steam.
So, you can have your first Factories about 40 - 50 years before Steam, but there has to be a river where the factory is built.
The technology of the overshot, geared waterwheel, though, is much, much earlier: the Romans were building multi-wheel-driven flour mills in the 1st and 2nd century CE and wheels driving everything from saws to hammers (wood and metal working) to flour mills were in use all over Europe by the late middle ages.

For the Civ-V Eras, Waterwheel/Mill should come late in the Classical Era, Steam at the very end of the Enlightenment, with the building of the first steam-powered factories sending you right into the Industrial Era, which is where the ironclads, cruisers, and railroads go, since they all require the Industrial application of wrought iron/steel technology that pretty much defines Industrial.