The first Civ game without governments?

[redfern]

Apologies if this has been covered in other threads (I have searched and not found any clear answers), but as far as I can see for Beyond Earth BNW's ideologies have been replaced with the three affinities, whilst the social policies have been replaced with virtues. Looking at the features of both, however, there doesn't seem to be any implementation of actual government types. Are democracies and dictatorships, capitalism and communism totally removed from the game? If so, why?

One of my favourite parts of the Civilization series has been government types - from Civ1's changing of leader backgrounds depending on which you choose, to Alpha Centauri's and Civ4's mix-and-match civics screens (the best iteration, IMO). Them not being included removes a lot of the flavour from the series. Are governments simply an inchangeable part of a faction's background (eg, Franco-Iberia is always democratic and Brazilia military junta, but they have no impact on gameplay, simply lore)?

I thought they might be part of the 'virtues', but they seem relatively apolitical (there are left and right-wing elements in each column, it seems, and most are vague - 'social mores' anyone?)

Apologies if civics/governments are in the game and this minirant is pointless - but does anyone have any information?

- Redfern

 

[SupremacyKing]

Governments as such do not exist in CivBE. You cannot pick a type of government. Instead, we have virtues and affinities. These represent the type of society you are. I think one of the reasons for this change is because BE is in a future scifi setting so the devs wanted to explore that. Having traditional earth type governments don't really make sense anymore. And in any case, your society would quickly outgrow them anyway as they develop an affinity.

 

[Browd]

There are no government types in CiV either. Just because you choose the Republic social policy in Liberty doesn't mean you have a republican form of government, any more than choosing Monarchy in Tradition makes your ruler a king. There is some variation in the titles of leaders (how they are referred to in-game), depending on which social policies you have taken most recently, but it is just flavor.

 

[SupremacyKing]

There are no government types in CiV either. Just because you choose the Republic social policy in Liberty doesn't mean you have a republican form of government, any more than choosing Monarchy in Tradition makes your ruler a king. There is some variation in the titles of leaders (how they are referred to in-game), depending on which social policies you have taken most recently, but it is just flavor.

I do hope that civ6 will bring back traditional government types. They can do both governments and social policies. It would be nice to have governments and have revolutions when you change or pick a government that your people don't want.

 

[redfern]

I do hope that civ6 will bring back traditional government types. They can do both governments and social policies. It would be nice to have governments and have revolutions when you change or pick a government that your people don't want.

That would be great - a combination of AC/Civ4 civics which you can then boost over time with a Civ5 type system would be perfect.

There are still questions with the affinities - we might be beyond earth ideologies, but there are still questions of social organisation. How are the societies structured? How are their economies structured? The language and belief systems might be different, but there are still practical issues: how are leaders chosen? How does the government deal with poverty, or the press, or dissent? Those things will always exist, even in a world where the ideologies revolve around how to deal with the colonists' lives as outcasts on a strange world.

 

[Lord Shadow]

Affinities aren't really like Civ5 Ideologies, while the Virtues are a refined form of Civ5 Social Policies, which in turn deal with governmental, social and economic systems in a more modular way than the old government mechanics.

Some of your questions might be addressed in quests, but I'm guessing others will be left to imagination.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Civ BE is definitely lacking in the government/sociopolitical area
They may be addressed in quests and hopefully more in expansions.

CivVs model still had some form of government...but it looked at a more cumulative model. Some hybrid would be ideal for civ6

 

[bhavv]

I had an idea for boostable civics via policies / virtues just recently.

Eg - Civic Agarianism. Effect +1 food from farms. Bonuses from food tree virtue / policies - +1 production from farms, build farms 25% faster.

Civic - Theocracy. +10% gold from temples. Bonuses from religious policies / virtues -

A) +1 from temples with access to wine or incense.
B) +1 from temples with access to marble.

Stuff like that.

 

[GeoModder]

I do hope that civ6 will bring back traditional government types. They can do both governments and social policies. It would be nice to have governments and have revolutions when you change or pick a government that your people don't want.

Just think of the advisors as your government and pay close attention to their amblings.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I do hope that civ6 will bring back traditional government types. They can do both governments and social policies. It would be nice to have governments and have revolutions when you change or pick a government that your people don't want.

Traditional government types actually do little to the gameplay. Usually you upgrade to better government once it's available. Whether you prefer peaceful or militaristic branch depended on your playstyle mostly and was barely connected with the rest of the game.
Even AC and Civ4 civics had the same problem.

I would be happy to see some meaningful government choice, but I don't see how to do it. It's too global thing.

 

[DarkestOnion]

I like to think that Humanity will develop away from what we call/recognize Governments at some point in the future. This song always makes me think of how good that could be...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhq-yO1KN8

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Really do not care whether you like governments in real life or not. This thread is about a game called CivBE. It takes place in a world far advanced from today, so let's leave out today's governments please.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[CaptainPatch]

Governments as such do not exist in CivBE. You cannot pick a type of government. Instead, we have virtues and affinities. These represent the type of society you are. I think one of the reasons for this change is because BE is in a future scifi setting so the devs wanted to explore that. Having traditional earth type governments don't really make sense anymore. And in any case, your society would quickly outgrow them anyway as they develop an affinity.

That concept seems bizarre to me. Pretty much ALL of Human History shows that once
a community starts to have Public Works, common defense, commerce, et al, some form of government WILL manifest itself. There will ALWAYS be people that tell others what to do (or not do) and others looking for guidance. As far as people groupings go, it's one of the defining elements of being Human.

 

[3of5]

That concept seems bizarre to me. Pretty much ALL of Human History shows that once
a community starts to have Public Works, common defense, commerce, et al, some form of government WILL manifest itself. There will ALWAYS be people that tell others what to do (or not do) and others looking for guidance. As far as people groupings go, it's one of the defining elements of being Human.

i would not differentiate people into those two categories, but in general i do agree with you. But its not because some want to rule and some want to follow, but because anarchy only works a governmental form as long as the emerging societies population is below the dunbar number (number of relations a person can handle). If a society grows beyond that number a form of governance and a ruleset has to be established to counter new emerging problems. If not, the group splits into two groups, as seen in monkey populations. Then the type of government determines at what size of society it would be most efficient and where the limits lie.

Therefore i'd really like a government selection like in SMAC, especcially regarding efficiency, strengths and weaknesses. And i really like how difficult it is to switch governments in EU4.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Oh why? Why you do this to me, Firaxis? After all we've been through?

I want my goverment types with my virtues/social policies! I want to be a puritist monarchy, a supremacist dictatorship, a harmonist democracy and vice versa with different virtues each time!

Oh why can't I have this?

 

[Lord Shadow]

I suppose SMAC-like social engineering would be a good way to go about changing between political and economic systems in a modular way.

But changing whole government types with a single click, revolution notwithstanding, feels ham-fisted and obsolete by now.

 

[AriochIV]

The single-government choice system of Civ I-III was always a bit weak gameplay-wise (you'd unlock your preferred government type, usually democracy, and never change it), but I thought the civics system of Civ IV worked very well... there were genuine choices and tradeoffs, and situations in which changing civics made sense. I would like to see a return to that sort of model someday. I don't think the Social Policies tree of buffs was ever a strong design decision.

 

[Mustakrakish]

The single-government choice system of Civ I-III was always a bit weak gameplay-wise (you'd unlock your preferred government type, usually democracy, and never change it), but I thought the civics system of Civ IV worked very well... there were genuine choices and tradeoffs, and situations in which changing civics made sense. I would like to see a return to that sort of model someday. I don't think the Social Policies tree of buffs was ever a strong design decision.

I agree.

I would sooo like a some kind of civics system to go along with virtues and affinities.

 

[DarkestOnion]

Check out Iain M Banks Culture Novels to see a Model of Future Non-Government (Neo-Anarchy?). It is the most functional model of its nature that I have encountered in Science Fiction thus far.

 

[CaptainPatch]

Just an overall observation. In the total absence of government, how do you conduct Commerce? It would have to be via barter, because it takes some regulatory agency to issue and maintain currency. And it takes a Law Enforcement agency to deal with the inevitable counterfeiters. And to keep the Lawkeepers from quickly becoming tyrannical because they have Power and others don't, there has to be an empowered oversight group that can keep the Lawkeepers from becoming tyrannical that is likewise curtailed by a system of checks-and-balances by other groups. For these factors and many, many, many, many more, a large population (size may vary), a government is NEEDED.

If Firaxis wants to assure that all players are doing nothing but playing a game, much like playing Chess or Checkers -- that is, nothing more than manipulating some very mechanical mechanics, then by all means, leave the governments out. But if they want to immerse the players in a mindset of imagining what it is like to develop a small population into a globe girdling empire, they really need to put in a government selection and development system.