The Forbidden Palace Decision

[jUmpSt0p]

I'm finding when to build the FP a really difficult decision!

I guess this is something everyone probably faces in certain games? It seems to come down to: Should I build it now, even though it won't be very far from my capital, and might not have a huge effect on my cities? Or, should I wait until later, when I plan to go do some conquering, and I can put it up in a captured enemy capital (perhaps on another continent) and get some strong late game cities up and running quick?

in my current game, it's now 1740 AD, the FP has been available for a long while, but I just can't make a decision... even though my empire is quite large, there aren't any perfect cities for it, but at the same time, the earlier I get it up, the more savings it will accrue. so, even if they are small, it might be greater savings than waiting for the perfect city to possibly become available later due to warring.

also, another thing that will affect my decision is, What is the range of the FP?
How many tiles does it extend? (and I suppose the power decreases at a particular ratio, inversely proportional to the distance?)

if you are interested, here is the empire I'm dealing with (I am Rome, in Purple):
Top (Rome in bottom right)-
Middle -
Bottom (Rome just OOS to the North) -

(I also have some island cities off in the Western Ocean (is 3 screenshots the limit per post?)

anyone see any places they would put the FP?


but in general, how do you feel about the FP? do you put it up early, and feel that smaller savings over a longer period are more beneficial? or do you wait until you do some conquering and you have the perfect city that's far away and will really save a lot?

of course, there are surely some great games where you find the ideal location early, but I think we can take that for granted.

 

[Sincro]

Based on that city layout, if you were going to build it anywhere, I would say the NW portion of your map, but you actually have Rome so centrally located, that you will receive marginal benefit from it no matter where you put it. As a further question, the three cities which form a cyst on your SW flank: Do those belong to a vassal? If not, then you should probably punch them out, opening up a fairly decent spot for the FP.

If you had a marginal actual capital, which does not look to be your situation, your best benefit would be to build a new palace up NW, and then the FP down in the southern portion of your empire.

As far as how many tiles does it extend, it's not quite like that. The FP acts as a second capital for purposes of 'distance to capital' in the city maintenance calculation for each city. As long as the FP is closer to a city then the actual capital is, it will reduce that city's maintenance by some amount.

 

[jUmpSt0p]

yeah, the NW is looking good, actually I just decided to start the FP there, especially as I am putting a new city over on the edge there, where an oil popped up... some desert there, but lots of sea squares, so it should make money

as far as the 3 cities down in the SW... yes, those are a pain in my butt. I actually went to several wars with Cyrus, and in that area I razed like 4 of his cities... and in the SE, I did the same to Gilgamesh

it was really difficult, you may imagine, trying to seal off that huge chunk of land (whole north of the continent) for myself early in the game. unfortunately, I wasn't able to put either Cyrus SW, or Gilgamesh SE, out of the game.

and now, they have a defensive pact, and I've also got pretty bad rep across the board, so I'm hesitant to attack..

 

[AlphaShard]

Thankfully the FP is a National Wonder so you can always build it, Versallies on the other hand is the WW you can't sit on for too long if you want it before the AI gets it.

 

[Baldyr]

You could also move your capital to another location, so that more cities are close to one of your centers of government.

Also, I don't believe centers of government have any "range" as such. The longer from them - the more maintenance you pay. So try to put them either in the middle of a cluster of big (and expensive) cities - or somewhere in the "middle" of your empire so that that the most cities will benefit from their proximity.

Another consideration would be to decide in beforehand which direction you're gonna expand (who you're gonna conquerer) and build the FP in that end of your empire. When you do expand those newly acquired cities will pay less maintenance.

 

[bestsss]

>>What is the range of the FP?
The same as your capital: there is no range.
The closest gov. center is taken into consideration when the maintenance city cost is calculated.
That's all about it (and it cannot be destroyed by nukes, ah and produces great spy points)

 

[jUmpSt0p]

okay, but what about the larger, more strategic question I'm asking?

this post wasn't just about my current empire...

with the FP, do you get it up early, even though you might not have the perfect spot?
or, do you wait until late game (if u plan on warring) and try to get it really far away?

 

[Baldyr]

with the FP, do you get it up early, even though you might not have the perfect spot?
or, do you wait until late game (if u plan on warring) and try to get it really far away?

That would be your classic dilemma then. You simply have to decide on a case to case basis - and live with that decision. As long as you make an informed decision you shouldn't beat yourself up second guessing it. And it seems to me like you have a grip on the advantages and disadvantages of either decision, so you should be just fine.

But planning always helps - see my previous post.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Yes, you always have the option of rebuilding your palace anywhere, so if it turns out later in the game you have a load of cities on some far off continent, you can put it there to reduce costs.

Having said that, I've never actually done this because I do tend to build the Forbidden Palace later on

 

[bestsss]

okay, but what about the larger, more strategic question I'm asking?

this post wasn't just about my current empire...

with the FP, do you get it up early, even though you might not have the perfect spot?
or, do you wait until late game (if u plan on warring) and try to get it really far away?

more strategic: adopt state property.
no you dont wait, you build it when you need it most

 

[jUmpSt0p]

Yes, you always have the option of rebuilding your palace anywhere, so if it turns out later in the game you have a load of cities on some far off continent, you can put it there to reduce costs.

Having said that, I've never actually done this because I do tend to build the Forbidden Palace later on

yes, rebuilding the Palace and moving the capitol...

well, I've only played Civ 4 for about 2 months now, but I did play a lot of Civ 3.

anyway, I just can't seem to get used to the idea of moving my capitol! I was never able to do it in Civ 3.

I mean, ROME is the capitol of ROME, dangit! I just can't make myself do that! I get too sentimentally attached to my capitol cities!

 

[Quaczar]

Whenever I move the capital I switch the names. Rome will be where I want it to be

 

[jUmpSt0p]

but would a Rome by any other name smell as sweet?

I think not!

 

[Bluto_Longneck]

but would a Rome by any other name smell as sweet?

I think not!

By the name A Roma it would?

 

[FriendoftheDork]

I'm not sure if you need the FP at all - as said you have a good centralized capitol already. But how much do you lose at wors from maintenence from distance to palace? And is this a aignificant chunk of your total expenses?

 

[jUmpSt0p]

craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap!!!

I shouldn't have built it.. I did, but it was a mistake!

see, I didn't think war was coming for a while, because things on my continent weren't lookin good for me... my 2 neighbours who I both need to knock-out are in a Defensive Pact, and then one of them also has a decent Vassal

so, to attack one would be immediate 1 vs 3

but things just changed! cuz another Civ/Vassal pair on the continent went to war with the Three-Headed-Monster..

so now I can swoop in on the opposite front and nab those cities w/out worry!

argh, that FP would have been sooo perfect in one of my (soon to be captured) cities!

 

[Patak]

I tend to build FP as soon as possible. If you wait til 1700 AD you can go to state property and you dont need FP at the first place.

 

[Nilmerf]

If you plan on going State Property later, build it early. If you plan on going Free Market with corporations, you'll definitely want to save it for the best spot.. especially if you have cities on a different landmass. Also, are you Julius or Augustus? Julius can unlock it faster, but will have a better economy and less need for it. Augustus can build the actual palace faster.

 

[DrakenKin]

I generally build it in the direction where I plan on conquering. I also never hesitate to move my capital...

Just look at your continent and assume you will conquer it all, and decide on 2 spots that would be great for a capital/AP. Make the FP early (a good time is when you run out of wonders to build) in your empire even if it is not significantly far from your capital, and later on when you conquer and push a lot in one direction you move your capital. The AP you made will serve that region while your new capital covers the other side of the continent.

But again it is important to move your capital in the right situations, especially later in the game when you can make a palace in less than 10 turns in most cities... often you get cities that surpass your original capital in terms of income or production, and moving your capital there can give a significant boost. Money is generally not a problem, but the +50% boost to production is great when you put it where it counts the most.

Consider for instance a culture win... after building a lot of wonders in your first city and seeing clearly that it is well on its path to become legendary, you might want to move your palace to the third city (in terms of culture) so you can build future wonders there with the +50% prod and catch up to the first two cities a little faster.