starlifter
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2001
- Messages
- 4,210
No need to apologize... everyone has a right to an opinion, and even those that may not agree with mine. It is ironic that for years I took the major military books at face value concerning the "1,000,000" casualties as justification for attacking the Japs with the Bomb. I've spent many a Hiroshma and Nagasaki anniversary in Japan, and was more than willing to explain how they should be grateful for our nuking them to their senses.Starlifter, maybe you're right, maybe you aren't; I don't know anymore. You do sound very convincing. Actually I am not very clear on the US side in the Korean War, so I apolgise for any informational error on my part.
However, the real memos, records, meeting minutes, personal letters of Truman, etc. show the real story which I've only begun to learn in the last 3 or so years. Mac Arthur understood teh Japanese and the "eastern mind" more than any other major Allied commander, and it is fortunate for the Japanese that Mac Arthur was their conqueror.
But the nuking of Japan was unnecessary, and quite prideful. Most people, especially western people, simply have no understanding of Japan of 1945, much less the military disposition or the weight of the will of the Emperor. The war was over and would have ended, had Truman had a grasp of things. But its not his fault and I don't condemn him for being an unintelligent, short-sighted, vain individual. However, even a Forrest Gump is expected to keep faith and loyalty with the American fighting man.
Stalin actaully stabbed the evil Red Chinese in the back in several other ways, too.Joe Stalin betrayed his 'evil Red' allies right before the Chinese attack into N. Korea. He promised Mao fighter support from the USSR and backed down at the last minute. Supposedly Mao had a nervous breakdown.
True... but the fact remains that if a nation attacks and kills Americans, esp. in an undeclared sneak attack like the Evil Red Chinese did, the C-in-C should pull all the stops and uleash the full and entire weight of the US Military upon such evil aggression and murder. Had Chairman Mao been C-in-C, most of his actions would scarcely have been distihguishable from those of Truman's. It was the Chinese, not the US, that decided to pick a war. The US had no intention of fighting in the Far East, and indeed did not even have the proper forces in place for a defense. A "defense" based on airpower and the Bomb does no good if you will not use it to defend the lives of your nation's soldiers.the communist North Korea asked the 'evil Red Chinese' commies for aid in repelling western aggression (never mind they started the war), like the South Koreans did of the US. That was the 'evil Red' version of things at the time.
It was actaully reported in multiple mainstream sources, including Leherer, Frontline, and another PBS documentary, plus various news sources (including Time and/or Newsweek).About the more recent scandal involving Clinton, Starlifter, where is your source about China getting missle guidence tech? I don't disbelieve you, but I thought they stole that along with our MIRV secrets in the spy scandal. I would like to see that very much.
Lest I mislead you, Clinton and Gore did not actually send US Military missiles to China... nor did they release ICBM plans. What they did was to allow the export of "peaceful" missile technology, particularly in terms of computers, software, guidance, etc. Clinton/Gore's story now is that it was just for satellites. The US Justice Department was still investigating Gore several months ago, last I heard. I have seen nothing in the news lately, however.
The money trail into the Clinton/Gore '96 campaign led to the red Army sources reported in the media. I'm noat sure where the official investigation is about that right now.
Kennedy, like yellow stain Truman and the draft dodger Clinton, had little to no respect for the US Monroe Doctrine. The Cuban Commie pigs should have been snuffed out from the getgo. Kennedy should have simply called off the entire operation if he did not like it. Instead, he let the Cubans go in believing he would keep the promise of American help. Kennedy pissed in his pants and let the Cubans die, betrayed. Naturally, the Soviets saw JFK as the disgusting spineless traitor that he was.... and attempted to exploit the situation. Make no mistake.... Kennedy caused the Cuban Missile Crisis... that should never have occurred. Kennedy was fortunate to visit Dallas in November of 1963, but he had holes in his head long before then. He was fortuante in the sense that history in the short term treated him kindly because of his assassination.1. Quickly on the Kennedy thing.
LOL, read the documents of the era. Some of your remarks are similar to what I used to think, based on the massaged view of history generally taught. There were lots of coverups at the end of the war. Recent declassifications and discovered documents, particularly the documents missing from some of Truman's records for decades, show the truth. It is disgusting at times.2. With the casaulty figures, the US really did not know what the casaulties were going to be.
You don't have a clue about war, or you'd realize how silly your statement is. Of course an expanded war is bad. ANY war is bad. That is the whole POINT of war.... it is horrific, terrible, and something to be avoided. But when it comes, it is time to knuckle down and get the job done with determination and overwhelming force. It is not time to urinate on oneself and metaphorically suck the d*ck of the jerk who is pissing on you. And Truman was a d*ck sucker extraordinare. When the first American soldier was attacked by the evil Red Chinese, the US should have declared war on the evil Red Chinese and kicked their asses back into Mongolia or Kamchatka if necessary. Red Hordes = Red Carbon.I don't think expanding the war into China (which would have gotten the Soviets even more involved) would have been a good idea. Truman had a choice of high probability of war with China and Soviet Union (and renewed warfare in Europe), or the limited fighting in Korea.
America sold out with the Truman solution, and to this day, we pay the price around the world. Ironically, the average Chinese pays the price too...
So who the hell cares what the Soviet menace thinks? If Truman listened to Patton in 1945, the Red Menace would have been the Red Grimace. We developed the Bomb for use in Europe... the place it should have been deployed was in far eastern Europe.... the Soviets should have been put back in their cage, and if they didn't like it, their cage should have been incinerated. One must not tolerate evil and appease monsters like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. Such people and governments must be stomped and wiped out with extreme prejudice when you have the upper hand. And in 1945 we had the upper hand.
No, you are wrong... the war never ended, thanks to the betrayal of the Soviet "allies". America just quit fighting, thanks to a weak, treacherous President Truman. Truman was obscessed with Stalin... and Stalin, as we now know, accuratly assessed Truman as weak minded and weak-willed individual ready to betray his own nation given the chance.Keep in mind the most destructive 6 year (4 for US) conflict had just been concluded.
You don't "contain" evil. You stomp it out. Hunt it down and kill it. What a stupid idea to allow evil to survive, when the world fought a war to rid itself of dictatorships, murderers, and evil empires. A coward like Truman comes along and ensures the survival, nay the flourishing, of empires even more monsterous than the 3rd Reich and Rising Sun.Truman helped form NATO and the containment policy,
Some people will not fight even to save their family and countrymen. Fine. But get out of the way, and don't betray the nation. Others will eventually pay the price, one way or the other.