The Global Warming Thread

[sysyphus]

As I've said before, unless someone can show me how man was responsible for every other warming period or mini ice age that the earth has had since man has been around, I'm not going to believe we're responsible for this one either. There have been warmer periods and cooler periods in recorded history, so I'm not exactly losing any sleep over a 1 degree rise in temperature. Big whoop.

You will note that the current warming trends are moving at a much faster pace than the natural cycle of changes.

And 1 degree difference IS a big whoop. Ecosystems (on which our economic activities are dependant) are very fragile and operate under very specific conditions.

 

[Spartan117]

a couple of degrees different will destroy ecosystems, and entire populations of animals...

although the earth changes it could very be possible it would not be changing at this point in time without humans

funny i wrote as this guy posted...

 

[BasketCase]

Basketcase get humble immediately!

Perfection, how about we move our world conquest plans up a couple of weeks? I'm gonna go power up the giant death robots.

I don't know where else I can go from "undecided", Xeno. Yer outta luck. Don't worry, once Perfection and I rule the planet, we'll give you a cushy spot in the slave pits.

 

[BasketCase]

And 1 degree difference IS a big whoop. Ecosystems (on which our economic activities are dependant) are very fragile and operate under very specific conditions.

Riddle me this, everyone: which is worse, a 1 degree rise, or a ten degree DROP?

William Ruddiman's Take On the Whole Global Warming Biz

An ice age that should have begun 4,000 to 5,000 years ago never happened, Ruddiman said.

“We humans got in the way of what nature was going to do,” Ruddiman said. “The climate is stable only because humans have kept it that way.”

Scary possibility, ain't it?

 

[Sidhe]

Er the guys a nut, how did humans stop an ice age exactly, details please? Current belief is - that ah why bother I put the links up before - suffice to say no one believes we were going into an ice age 4-5000 years ago except this guy I guess. :/

By details I mean ice core samples or something in the way of evidence instead of conjecture, the likely footprint of carbon by human habitation was negligible back then, this is fantasy.

Anyway if you consider causing widespread death as temperatures escalate as being in control then by all means this guy is very much right, only he's 4800 years out of date.

 

[Rad Chris]

I dont understand why it matters if global warming is man made or not, surely the only thing that matters is the effect. Its not like its any kind of consolation that your farmland turned to desert because it was 'just a natural cycle'.

 

[crabapple]

I dont understand why it matters if global warming is man made or not, surely the only thing that matters is the effect. Its not like its any kind of consolation that your farmland turned to desert because it was 'just a natural cycle'.

I totally agree, but if its not man made, I think alot of funding would lose support, so its a positive thing that goverments and others belives its man made.

 

[Till]

I dont understand why it matters if global warming is man made or not, surely the only thing that matters is the effect. Its not like its any kind of consolation that your farmland turned to desert because it was 'just a natural cycle'.

That is my opinion as well. We will have to deal with the effects of climate change sooner or later. I wish we would just plan ahead instead of arguing about how big exactly our contribution to climate change is.

 

[puglover]

Sure, man has probably changed the climate a little. Will it lead to disaster? No.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Artic Ice melting - http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4290340.stm

And some graphs from the BBC site...

 

[Xenocrates]

Sure, man has probably changed the climate a little. Will it lead to disaster? No.

This is a faith position similar to the ones expressed on the evolution thread!

Besides which, man-made climate change has already lead to many disasters. These include desertification around the Aral sea due to irrigation and in Northern China due to deforestation.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Lack of poll options. Humans have been on the earth for too short of a period, and been able to accurately monitor climate patterns for an even shorter period to draw accurate conclusions. The planet has been a swealtering environment before and a polar wasteland, both long before humans ever stepped foot on ground.

 

[Atropos]

Is man-made climate change occurring? Yes. I don't know anything about it, so if the scientists say it's so, it's so.

Will it have a major impact on human life? No. Ever heard of dykes? During the first twenty years of the fourteenth century, the temperature plunged as the world entered the "little ice age" of 1300-1700. In 1300, grapes were widely cultivated in England. By 1320, the Thames regularly froze over. We are not going to be wiped out because we have to buy T-shirts instead of jumpers.

 

[BasketCase]

Er the guys a nut, how did humans stop an ice age exactly, details please?

As Dr. Ruddiman's theory goes: the planet was supposed to enter an Ice Age 5,000-odd years ago, but human beings exterted a warming influence with their farming practices (cutting down forests, producing greenhouse gases with farming and livestock, etc.)

It's just a theory, but it's a sensible one with an awful lot of research behind it.

 

[Sidhe]

You could produce Ice core samples that dated from 5000 years ago to this present day, if the change in CO2 levels was significant then you could make a case, as far as I can tell he hasn't done this so there is no corroborative evidence, it's merely speculation; don't get me wrong it's interesting but your talking huge increases in CO2 levels to head off an ice age, I don't make a habbit of throwing the crackpot accusation at people lightly, but just surmising that man's existance has increased the Earths CO2 based on history is anecdotal and so it's not going to stand up to scientific scrutiny.

To be exact it's just a hypothesis as it stands.

I'm not sure of the guys credentials but you could get funding to do research on this assuming he had the right level of education, or he conviced someone who did.

Is man-made climate change occurring? Yes. I don't know anything about it, so if the scientists say it's so, it's so.

Will it have a major impact on human life? No. Ever heard of dykes? During the first twenty years of the fourteenth century, the temperature plunged as the world entered the "little ice age" of 1300-1700. In 1300, grapes were widely cultivated in England. By 1320, the Thames regularly froze over. We are not going to be wiped out because we have to buy T-shirts instead of jumpers.

Not wiped out no: but we are talking increased rainfall in some areas causing flooding and widespread death, decreased rainfall in other areas causing droubt and famine and increased strength of hurricanes and other weather phenomina also increasing the death toll. No we wont die, but less people will be around if we don't get global mean temperatures under control. How we do this is OT, but reducing global emissions of CO2 will help.

 

[Atropos]

Not wiped out no: but we are talking increased rainfall in some areas causing flooding and widespread death, decreased rainfall in other areas causing droubt and famine and increased strength of hurricanes and other weather phenomina also increasing the death toll. No we wont die, but less people will be around if we don't get global mean temperatures under control. How we do this is OT, but reducing global emissions of CO2 will help.

Out of curiosity, how do you account for the fact that none of this happened the last time there was major climate change?

I'm not disputing any of the scientific evidence on this. I know nothing about it. But I do know something about history, which most scientists don't, and I know that humans can react to very abrupt climate change very quickly with relatively little difficulty.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Ah the conservative don't care, buy a big car type

Just because a person has a big car doesn't mean they are always a "big car type" or don't care. All it really means is, well, that they have a big car.

It's too bad this issue is so politicized as it may end up being very important to all of us.

 

[Sidhe]

Oh don't worry I forgive you for having a SUV

I was only kidding anyway, Basket Case has gone from being a big hell no to a big don't know, that's a good thing.

 

[Sidhe]

Out of curiosity, how do you account for the fact that none of this happened the last time there was major climate change?

I'm not disputing any of the scientific evidence on this. I know nothing about it. But I do know something about history, which most scientists don't, and I know that humans can react to very abrupt climate change very quickly with relatively little difficulty.

This did happen in history anyway it's just we know relatively little about it.

I'm not disputing that humans don't react quickly to environmental changes in temperature, the trouble is they react but still they die, in history it's always been put down to God or something out of the human ability to control. When we have the means to reduce suffering and death then we should at least if we are moral, try to reduce the causes particularly when we are the cause.

 

[Atropos]

This did happen in history anyway it's just we know relatively little about it.

I'm not disputing that humans don't react quickly to environmental changes in temperature, the trouble is they react but still they die, in history it's always been put down to God or something out of the human ability to control. When we have the means to reduce suffering and death then we should at least if we are moral, try to reduce the causes particularly when we are the cause.

Um, no. We know a good deal about the fourteenth-century climate change and reactions thereto. People migrated, had fewer children (yes there was birth control of a sort in the middle ages) or planted other crops. They did not "just die."