The Grand Menagerie

[nealhunt]

How do you build this thing?

My 7-year old son loves catching animals. He loves to rush for it and virtually always builds Nature's Revolt just to run around and catch even more animals. Normally, he just likes to have them as units. This weekend I showed him how to build carnivals and pens/cages and how to set the game up for maximum animal catching (Wildlands option, lots of land/fewer civs, play civ that starts with Ag).

We decided to try to build the Grand Menagerie. After a good dozen starts, rushing straight for catching all the animals we could, at no point did we get closer than needing 2 more cages/pens to qualify for the GM.

The only thing I haven't tried is a tropical map. It seems that since gorillas and tigers are the two most difficult animals to get that a tropical map might help. Of course, that might slow down bears and wolves as a balance. I don't know as I didn't try it.

For those that have built it... what do you do to get the animals needed?

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Try Epic game speed (not Marathon, it's too boring). You only get a fixed number of turns before animals stop spawning, and it takes time to find all those animals. I made half-assed attempts at it, but never beelined it with reckless abondon, becuase religions are a more reliable and easier source of hapiness anyway. They need to increase the reward to +4 hapiness or something.

If you DO get it though... ask your son to go to bed, and then continue the game by taking advantage of the 2 extra hapiness by going for Ashan Veil and Sacrifice the Weak, and actually being able to use the extra population.

 

[feydras]

For those that have built it... what do you do to get the animals needed?

I've only built it once playing as the Ljosalfar which seems to give you a leg up - the starting techs and the bonus move in forests helps a lot. I was playing on Knight-Nikis's Huge map. I think building the GM is a combination of game settings, civ choice, concerted effort, and luck. Sounds like you are doing everything right with your settings and just need a bit more luck.

- feydras

 

[zxcvbnm]

Archipelago maps might have lone islands where rare animals might survive

 

[Caradoc]

Archipelago maps might have lone islands where rare animals might survive

For best results, add some Barbarian towns to buffer the wild areas from the other Civilizations, so the animals do not need to be on an island. With the sto_Archipelago map, you can really crank up the number of animals. On such a map, I've found I can build the Great Menagerie about half the time. (Turn on Raging Barbarians and Aggressive AI and you are in for some real fun.)

A last suggestion is to go Sailing as soon as you can. Hunters should be good enough to bring-em-back-alive, and the bonus is that they will also find remote goodie huts. (But I am currently unhappy about the way Hawks have to be boarded in town. It effectively keeps your Hunters from using them.)

 

[Blakmane]

there's now an option that allows for double animal spawning =)

 

[Lord Yanaek]

You only get a fixed number of turns before animals stop spawning,

Is it something that can be modded in xml files or is it hard-coded in the game (or semi-hard coded in python)?

 

[Sarisin]

I've built it twice and almost a third time - I mentioned the failed time as one of the worst things to happen to me in FFH2. I had all the animals in my city and was just a few turns away from building the Grand Menagerie when all the bloody animals broke out. Most, including the elusive gorilla and tiger, were killed. So much for that effort.

I'd like to say there was some skill involved in rounding up all the necessary critters those three times, but it really was dumb luck. The main problem you have with the Epic games I play is that it takes time to research Animal Husbandry and, hopefully, Hunting. You have to be very lucky to find all the animals, especially the gorilla and tiger, but you really need more luck to capture them all with a Scout. Often by the time you have a Hunter, the barbs have arrived and the animal population severely declines. Raging Barbs makes it even tougher.

Nature's Revolt is OK, but I never saw any gorillas or tigers come out of that. Also, the main benefit of the Grand Menagerie is a Carnival in every city, so by the time you build Nature's Revolt, you likely have Carnivals. It is nice to build the GM early on in the game.

 

[Grey Fox]

Is it something that can be modded in xml files or is it hard-coded in the game (or semi-hard coded in python)?

I think animals stop spawning when Barbarians appear. And they arrive when the average city count is 1.5 city per civ, I believe. But some animals reproduce so they can still populate. Except that Gorillas and Tigers don't.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

Cheat and use world builder. Not that I do.....

 

[Calavente]

with nature's revolt, gorilla and tiger may appear if barbs are on jungle tiles..
-by that time, usually jungles are cut down as people have sanitation and want to expand in jungles.
so the barbs are mostly on plain or grass lands, trying to approache the cities...
-secondly, by that time, barbs max concentration are in or coming from undevelopped lands.. meaning deserts or tundra-ice..===> those gives wolfs and bears. and lions.

the best way to still have tiggers and gorillas when rangers are calling is really the archipelago map...
(there really aren't any animal worth the subdue animal and +50% vs animal of the beastmaster and rangers... hopfully, shadow will see more late barb and late animals, more powerful or at least still existing.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

I think animals stop spawning when Barbarians appear. And they arrive when the average city count is 1.5 city per civ, I believe. But some animals reproduce so they can still populate. Except that Gorillas and Tigers don't.

No way to have normal barbs and still have animals appear so ...
It would be nice in a fantasy world to have both.

 

[Sarisin]

Maybe the other animals don't spawn, but you sure get a bunch of Bears 'reproducing' in their lairs. I honestly have not played a .25 game when the map was not packed with Bears. I am sure the Bears far outnumbered the barbs.

The problem I have been seeing, especially with Labruscum, is that the AI sticks 7 or more barb defenders in their cities. As I mentioned before on a huge land map, you get 30-40 barb cities in the open spaces vacated by wiped out AI civs. Put defenders in those cities, add in 100 or so Bears, and you really no longer have a raging barb problem. In mid-late raging barb games I have played I never saw anything approaching a stack of barbs. What would be neat would be if the Bears created a stack and came after you.

 

[Caradoc]

I don't think you will get Gorillas or Tigers by way of Nature's Revolt these days since they are converted from higher level units that the AI refuses to build.

Another factor for Bears is that any Bear can create a Lair, so they spread.

 

[TravellingHat]

I can confirm I have certainly got tigers from Nature's revolt, but never gorillas.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yes, tigers are possible, but gorillas are not. I don't think the Natures revolt Python code has been updated since they were added:

Spoiler :

if iProjectType == gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROJECT_NATURES_REVOLT'):

bPlayer = gc.getPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
py = PyPlayer(gc.getBARBARIAN_PLAYER())
iAxeman = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_AXEMAN')
iBear = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_BEAR')
iHunter = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_HUNTER')
iLion = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_LION')
iScout = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_SCOUT')
iTiger = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_TIGER')
iWarrior = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_WARRIOR')
iWolf = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_WOLF')
iWorker = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCLASS_WORKER')
for pUnit in py.getUnitList():

bValid = False
if pUnit.getUnitClassType() == iWorker:

iNewUnit = iWolf
bValid = True​

if pUnit.getUnitClassType() == iScout:

iNewUnit = iLion
bValid = True​

if pUnit.getUnitClassType() == iWarrior:

iNewUnit = iLion
bValid = True​

if pUnit.getUnitClassType() == iHunter:

iNewUnit = iTiger
bValid = True​

if pUnit.getUnitClassType() == iAxeman:

iNewUnit = iBear
bValid = True​

if bValid:

newUnit = bPlayer.initUnit(iNewUnit, pUnit.getX(), pUnit.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_NORTH)
newUnit = bPlayer.initUnit(iNewUnit, pUnit.getX(), pUnit.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_NORTH)
newUnit = bPlayer.initUnit(iNewUnit, pUnit.getX(), pUnit.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_NORTH)
pUnit.kill(True,0)​

for iPlayer in range(gc.getMAX_PLAYERS()):

pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
if pPlayer.isAlive():

py = PyPlayer(iPlayer)
for pUnit in py.getUnitList():

if pUnit.isAnimal():
pUnit.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_HEROIC_DEFENSE'), True)
pUnit.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_HEROIC_DEFENSE2'), True)
pUnit.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_HEROIC_STRENGTH'), True)
pUnit.setHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_HEROIC_STRENGTH2'), True)​

 

[Caradoc]

So as I read the code, Tigers would mean there were Barbarian Hunters. I have not seen that in .25.

 

[TravellingHat]

Lizardmen are the barbarian hunter unit, I believe.

 

[xienwolf]

Correct. At least, as Sheelba that is the case

 

[GoodGame]

I play with the Wildlands option and I rarely find anything other than a bear or lion.