The hefty price of happiness.

[Delphi456]

Assumptions: (1) Cannot establish RELIABLE trade route with other civs. (2) Ave city size is 8. (3) Emperor, Huge, Cont. (4) VC = Conquest or SS. (5) Cannot build temples, cath, collesiums.

I've got 3 lux plus markets, so I can manage with 10% on the lux slider because I'm in my GA. When it's over I'll have to bump it up. I'm toying with the idea of adding gobs of workers into cities to max the population to 12, then run the lux slider at whatever I need to (probably 40-50%). My thinking is that the extra pop should pay for the increased lux cost so I should break even money-wise, but I'll get the extra shield output (minus corruption). Has anyone ever tried doing this? Does it work?

 

[NotGod]

I consistently play on the emperor level, and I keep the happiness slider at zero and never touch it. I get my happiness with temples and cathedrals (often going for Sistine Chapel, as the AI seems to ignore the necessary line of research for that wonder). I try to micromanage, and if I am ever about to get civil disorder, I turn a worker into a scientist or entertainer only in extreme situations. I am quite the warmonger, so I tend to stay away from Republic.

Of course, marketplaces are excellent for happiness, but only when you get three different luxuries.

I would be interested in knowing whether some of the experts out there ever keep the lux slider at zero.

 

[Theryman]

I would rather use the lux slider than build temples and cathedrals. Why? For one, those shields can be used to make units which can take another lux (or just more land). Also, they will ALWAYS cost you upkeep- better to just use the slider when you need it than always paying a bunch of gold for happiness you don't need.

 

[eldar]

Temples / caths / colloseums (yuck!) also cost maintenance. All 3 are 6 gold per turn. IIRC that comes out before the gold is div'd up for Lux and Sci. Ick. Really they should only get built if you're milking your score, or in a big metropolis, or aiming for 100K culture.

About the only exception I can think of would be if you were stuck on an island with just 1 luxury and no means of hooking up more before Navigation. An excuse for Temples and Cathedrals, but never for Colloseums. Sell them once you have the luxes hooked up, and don't waste the shields on Sistine, if you must waste 600 shields on an early-MA Wonder build Leo's instead. Or just build 15 MAs/LBs or 8 Knights and go kill something.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

You should indeed just make do with the lux slider and not build those crappy things. I wouldn't build a market for 3 luxes either. Instead, i would build units and conquer more luxes.

Adding workers to your cities will increase your shield output of course. It will also help your commerce if you are under republic, even with the extra needed lux. In monarchy, it may be a small step back.

Make sure you add the workers to the oldest 2-3 core towns first. Then adjust the lux slider. Then add workers to the other cities as many as happiness can support. The higher the corruption, the fewer happy faces you get from the slider. So if you make your capital and the closest cities size 12, more remote cities will be slightly smaller.

I would only do this if the workers aren't needed anymore. Workers are important for your empire, so don't throw away your worker stack if you are gonna need them soon.

 

[Sashie VII]

I use the slider, but then I build Temples and Caths as well. Only that they're not priority.

 

[Aceman101]

I don't get why people don't conquer the luxuries of the AI. That would solve unhappiness problems.

 

[Sashie VII]

There's only so much on your continent, and the other is oceans away.

 

[Aceman101]

There was only 2 on my home continent in this game I'm playing. But as long as you bring lot's of transports, it shouldn't be hard to take down the civs on another continent.

 

[Sashie VII]

the other is oceans away.

Let me rephrase that: the other continent is many ocean tiles away that requires my sailors to know how to navigate the ocean without sinking.

 

[Aceman101]

But you don't get world maps untill navigation so you don't know were the luxeries are. I meant after galleleons.

 

[Sashie VII]

I don't need maps to know where, I just invade coastal luxs. And i was talking pre-ocean travel happiness

 

[Aceman101]

I like to use my strategic plans and decide who to attack. Usually a civ with a poor military and resources that I can have .

 

[ajb civver]

It works best to raise the slider to the point where your core cities with low corruption are happy, then your second tier cities use specialists, a temple might be useful in this situation, but it is 60 shields unless you are religious for just one content citizen unless you have the oracle. in very corrupt cities always just use specialists.

 

[Delphi456]

The point of this thread wasn't to debate the lux slider vs happiness buildings; it was about whether it is cost effective to add workers back to cities and 'up' the lux slider. Thanks Wacken for understanding that.

 

[Pyrrhos]

I don't get why people don't conquer the luxuries of the AI. That would solve unhappiness problems.

On a small to normal map, the other continents/islands are close enough not to lose 90% of your force enroute and make this a worthwhile gamble. On large, huge and sometimes even normal maps, it is not much of an option. The problem is that by the time you're ready to mount a sufficient-scale invasion overseas, the game has already been won and lost.

Realistically, you can't count on getting across before you acquire Navigation. In order to get there quickly, you need science - either your own or someone else's. This costs a lot of money and resources, so you have to invest in your own infrastructure irrespective of if you research it, buy it or extort it. Furthermore, you need a solid economic base in order to produce the units needed to mount a successful invasion and to hang on to what you acquire through conquest. Now how do you solve this equation?

Towns with a pop of 4-6 just don't cut the mustard. You can keep them happy-ish without too great a cost but then again, they won't produce enough fast enough to let you be there "firstest with the mostest" - unless you hope to do it with a zillion warriors (6-8 turn for a longbowman, 10-15 for a knight, nah!). You need cities, plenty of, but they need to be kept producing somehow. The solution is either lux slider, luxes + marketplaces, improvements or clowns+garrisons. No matter what you do, things come at a price and you do have to compromise (which is why this is the best game ever! )

Currrently, I'm doing an Emperor level game and find that 3-4 luxes and a temple are sufficient up to pop 7-8 or so. Above that, either marketplace or lux slider, of which I prefer the former. I'm streets ahead both in money and science at the juncture between MA and IA. My military forces are sufficient to deter any AI aggression and by the time I hit Computers, I'm ready to sew things up - I hope!

But that's me and my way of playing mid-level on large/huge. The "answer" will be different to other players and when playing other settings.