The Height of Level 9 - Songhai, Asia map, mod Marathon, mod difficulty

[vanjito]

Workers are for repairs on pillaged happy resources?

 

[Arilian]

Actually this setting it mutch better. I always hated in Deity that if you are not lost until turn 140, you probably won. Nukes changed that a bit but still.

I like this way better, no starting bonuses.

 

[vanjito]

With no population and happiness bonuses AI is 'crippled' with CS buying and VERY vulnerable to pillaging (their) luxuries.

As would be human, but I never saw AI pillage my resources(?)

If dev's would implement 'mad AI pillaging frenzy during war' it would be a nightmare

 

[maltz]

With no population and happiness bonuses AI is 'crippled' with CS buying and VERY vulnerable to pillaging (their) luxuries.

It turned out that throughout the game, 7 AIs spent a total of 1 turn under happiness 0. So there is no worry about that.

 

[DragonHead]

Hey, is there any way you can get like a mod for marathon speed that has all that in it to us?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

CS buying is something that you might consider modifying as well...
(you made the AI population the same-> same beakers, gold, hammers)
and then made the beakers gold and hammers better for everything BUT Wonders and CSs

Wonders I can see a reason, but possibly give the AI a discount on CSs.
(If possible)


I do like the idea of this mod. Should probably extend it to all difficulty levels (at low levels the AIs can just tech+build somewhat slower than the human)

 

[maltz]

Hey, is there any way you can get like a mod for marathon speed that has all that in it to us?

Yep. I have actually made the MOD and am testing them now.

 

[maltz]

Wonders I can see a reason, but possibly give the AI a discount on CSs.
(If possible)

Haven't found the ways to modify City States, but in the current test, I find the CS loving AIs such as Alexander, although quite poor, still able to save up and buy City States as they desire - just not that crazily.

I am also afraid that if AI can get CS cheaply, then Alexander would be overpowered since now the players won't have enough gold to buy them back.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Haven't found the ways to modify City States, but in the current test, I find the CS loving AIs such as Alexander, although quite poor, still able to save up and buy City States as they desire - just not that crazily.

I am also afraid that if AI can get CS cheaply, then Alexander would be overpowered since now the players won't have enough gold to buy them back.

Well that depends on the amount of Discount... if it was say 20% (AI costs are 200, 400, and 800 instead of 250, 500, and 1000) then it might be reasonable.

But overall I really like the concept of that difficulty level (units, buildings, and techs all reduced in cost).

 

[maltz]

Spoiler :

031. Back with more updates!

The Longsowrdsmen soon met some puny resistance. Here is 30:1 for the little pest! Ha-ha!

 

[maltz]

Spoiler :

032. It took me a total of 21 Turns, or 200 game years to finally reach Arabia. That's just crazy.
Time to declare war on Arabia!

Now it is clear why I want to bring 2 workers here - the Scouts have long ago revealed that Arabia was... well, "underdeveloped" would be an overestimation. There is absolutely no improvement on any tile! This is an extreme screw up for the Arabia AI. So I took away your starting worker and you don't know to build one yourself?

Arabia does manage to get 2 Great Generals - so good job on... I don't know - failed to defend countless barbarian invasions that successfully took Worker after Worker?

p.s. I have a simple answer for Arabia's failure - it was trying to build Wonders. Since AI has no advantage on world wonder building, it easily spends dozens of turns to build wonders (I can see a half-built Oracle there) - without Workers functioning (and properly defended) in the background. Arabia is known for having very little army, and that spells for disaster in a very empty map filled with fierce 30 HP barbarians.

 

[maltz]

Spoiler :

033. InfoAddict (this mod is great! Highly recommended for mod developing purpose.) also shows that Arabia has the smallest army all the way. While Persia has 3 Warriors and barely get even with barbarians, Arabia has no military unit at all! Wonder builders are doomed on this map.

 

[maltz]

Spoiler :

034. Saved up some cash and bought a Workshop in the capital. The +2 hammer and then +15% production makes a huge difference. And the first Great Engineer can be used to rush some useful wonder later. In a game with very little RA going on, the Porcelain Tower is usually the best pick (+2 Great Scientist points + Great Scientist).

 

[maltz]

Spoiler :

035. Surrounded Mecca and the assault begin! The city has 75 HP, but the siege of Mecca only lasted 3 turns.

 

[maltz]

Spoiler :

036. So Harun came and beg for peace. He offers us his full assets and income. He has a total of 10 gold and an income of -1 gold per turn...
Weaklings like this deserves to be wiped out! We can manage Syria better even if it is controlled by AI's puppet script.

 

[maltz]

Spoiler :

037. Under 33% of technology requirement, the AIs are all doing well in technology even without any population advantage.
Arabia even goes last on the technology race. Wonder builder? Harun actually failed to build any wonder. What a trategic outcome.

 

[maltz]

Spoiler :

038. Let's ease Arabia's suffering. How about some 20:1 against this poor spearman?
Battles under the triple HP mod is quite fun - it slows down even mathces, but landslides could still happen.
That's more like real wars.

 

[maltz]

Spoiler :

039. The second Great General is born! This is the famous Rommel, the "Desert Fox". Too bad we don't have any powerful enemy for him to demonstrate his commanding skills. How about patrolling the vincinity and beating down some barbarians?

 

[maltz]

Spoiler :

040. And that's the end of Harun.

At this point I thought I have over-tuned the mods to make AIs too weak. But later I found that there are two extremes. The peace-loving wonder builders such as Arabia suffer greatly due to their lack of power against barbarians. But the expansionist have all the empty space to pop cities into, and grows extremely fast. So it is more about the map. In a more crowded map, there won't be so many barbarians to bother peace lovers. But they will be easily butchered by an expansionist neighbor. There is just not too much hope going for peace here.

 

[maltz]

Spoiler :

041. Let's look at the world map and see what's going on! Arabia is no more, and Persia has taken its first step out to meet the Level 9 AIs. China's Wu Zetian now has 3 cities, a firm control of the fertile crescent's greater half, and small tech lead. But she is surrounded by three expansionist neighbors. We might be able to see some sparks there soon.

West of Arabia are two more peace-lovers, Egypt and India. From InfoAddict I can see that they also have almost no military. A recipe for an unsolicited Persian invasion on the road.

Due to the nature of the mod design, which gives the AIs no start-up advantage (except for the same 4 free techs), AIs that Persia face early on might be significantly weaker than Deity - such as Arabia we just see. If Harun was able to keep his 60% barbarian fighting bonus, his initial warriors, and his 200%-efficiency workers, things would look a lot different.

Although being fair sounds great, I can see a problem - some Civilization V AIs often fail on lower difficulties (now I remember those Emperor and Immortal days!) People who seek challenge will find the mod way too easy and stop playing too quickly, without realizing that some AIs have full potential to grow out of control after mid-game. I want to keep a good amount of challenge throughout - including early game. More thoughts on the next version later.