The Heroic Epic and ranged combat strength

[Bimblecrumbs]

Does it affect ranged combat strength or only melee combat strength?

Does it affect city attacks?

I've read a few threads which included contradictory answers and I'd like to settle this once and for all.

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Does it affect ranged combat strength or only melee combat strength?

Neither. It affects strength. It gets a promotion which persists through all upgrades which applies +15% modifier to strength in combat.

 

[Natmandoo]

Neither. It affects strength. It gets a promotion which persists through all upgrades which applies +15% modifier to strength in combat.

Does that mean if a unit hit say for 100 the bonus would make it hit for 115?

 

[Redaxe]

Neither. It affects strength. It gets a promotion which persists through all upgrades which applies +15% modifier to strength in combat.

Are you sure? I thought the morale bonus applied also to ranged combat strength?

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Are you sure? I thought the morale bonus applied also to ranged combat strength?

I just said that it does.

Combat is a function of strength and modifiers compared to strength and modifiers. The modifiers individually apply to the strength value. An equivalent statement is that they are summed and modify the strength value. The HE promotion puts a +15% modifier in that function. You can see this modifier in the combat preview window which shows your strength, the enemy's defending strength, and all modifiers for everybody.

There are nice tutorials on the combat system itself which should be accessible in the War Academy under Strategy & Tips forum.

 

[Redaxe]

I just said that it does.

Combat is a function of strength and modifiers compared to strength and modifiers. The modifiers individually apply to the strength value. An equivalent statement is that they are summed and modify the strength value. The HE promotion puts a +15% modifier in that function. You can see this modifier in the combat preview window which shows your strength, the enemy's defending strength, and all modifiers for everybody.

There are nice tutorials on the combat system itself which should be accessible in the War Academy under Strategy & Tips forum.

Hmmm I'm surprised I didn't notice this before. Nonetheless Heroic Epic is still useful for ranged units right because it makes them withstand melee, ranged and city attacks better?

 

[Delnar_Ersike]

According to the source code, Heroic Epic's +15% strength bonus applies to both ranged and melee strength. It is not applied to non-combat units or embarked units.

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Hmmm I'm surprised I didn't notice this before. Nonetheless Heroic Epic is still useful for ranged units right because it makes them withstand melee, ranged and city attacks better?

I cannot understand what exists between my words and my sense. "still" is out of place in this assessment, because as I said twice, the bonus applies to them and to melee units. I will throw every piece of information I have at this now.

To understand how it treats them differently you have to know how combat works, which I skipped over because the original question was confined to Heroic Epic.

When ranged units attack ranged units, they (for some reason) compare ranged strength to the ranged strength of the archer/gun. This is the only time between units that ranged strength becomes defense. There is further a modification for hit points , and a further modification which, on top of the attack type peculiarity just mentioned, makes ranged units and melee units especially susceptible to each other's attacks but better at defending from their own ilk.

I don't know how bombard defenses work, but I know the cover promotion doesn't function against it (it is actually bugged in even its simple case).

The Morale promotion gives a modifier. All modifiers apply to the strength, so they are additive, not cumulative. And the strength concerned will vary depending on who is involved in the combat.

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

@Horseshoe/Delnar: Thanks for clearing that up, I'll try to build it more often now that I know the facts.

 

[Redaxe]

I cannot understand what exists between my words and my sense. "still" is out of place in this assessment, because as I said twice, the bonus applies to them and to melee units. I will throw every piece of information I have at this now.

To understand how it treats them differently you have to know how combat works, which I skipped over because the original question was confined to Heroic Epic.

When ranged units attack ranged units, they (for some reason) compare ranged strength to the ranged strength of the archer/gun. This is the only time between units that ranged strength becomes defense. There is further a modification for hit points , and a further modification which, on top of the attack type peculiarity just mentioned, makes ranged units and melee units especially susceptible to each other's attacks but better at defending from their own ilk.

I don't know how bombard defenses work, but I know the cover promotion doesn't function against it (it is actually bugged in even its simple case).

The Morale promotion gives a modifier. All modifiers apply to the strength, so they are additive, not cumulative. And the strength concerned will vary depending on who is involved in the combat.

My apologies I completely misread your post from the start

@bimble. Yes it is a particularly good Wonder if you have a city with Forge, Alhambra, Brandenburg Gate etc. However it does have a high opportunity cost (competing with National College) so I tend to think it's best built early if you are going for a full domination victory or later if you are playing a peaceful tall civ and you need a stronger military for defense.

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

@Redaxe: Agreed. I'd never consider building it before NC/Ironworks, which are the only 2 NWs I build 100% of the time. Since I always go honour barracks are no problem, but my cap has to have enough production if I'm to squeeze the Heroic Epic in somewhere after Unis/Workshops/Ironworks. The only DCL I built it in was

Spoiler :

#31 because of the high early production Petra cap, and galleasses/frigates come late enough to fit it in beforehand.

 

[reddishrecue]

Off the heroic epic you only get the morale promotion which could be useful and not that much fun because it gives 15% attack bonus to all military units built in that city. However, like a national college which has more priority, i dont see that heroic epic has that much importance in getting it built because of the lack of production in the earlier eras unless youre enrico dandolo and easily build national wonders in the capital.