The Hidden Irony of Casablanca?

[Pangur Bán]

I just watched Casablanca again, and I noticed that it glorified French freedom fighting against the Germans. But it was set in French occupied Morocco. Does anyone else think that's just a little bit comical? Americans are often accused of not understanding irony, clearly Casablanca shows that they do. The irony was lost on Europe for this one

Discuss:

 

[napoleon526]

Not really sure what you mean. Is it ironic because it glorifies the French who had colonially occupied Morocco? I think that there's a bit of a difference between French occupation and Nazi occupation.

 

[D' Artagnan]

No, I think he meant that it was ironic that this movie, shot in Morocco which was occupied by Vichy France, glorified French Freedom Forces.

 

[napoleon526]

Originally posted by D' Artagnan
No, I think he meant that it was ironic that this movie, shot in Morocco which was occupied by Vichy France, glorified French Freedom Forces.

Ah, I get it. Actually, I didn't know that the movie was shot in Morocco! Interesting.

 

[Ukas]

Nah, it was noted at the time in better articles and reviews - even in Finland. Especially after the war - when Casablanca or Citizen Kane were shown the first time the cinema wasn't always approved as a form of art - it was thought to be only entertainment even after all the theories by e.g. Eisenstein. Later in the 50's however some US directors, who where previously been thought as mere entertainers - were acknowledged in for example Les Cahiers Du Cinema magazine exactly because of similar sidenotes (Andre Bazin and Francois Truffaut wrote to Cahiers many articles about American movies). It could be that this irony was seen in Europe first.

 

[Jeratain]

Strange, I watched this film last night again as well

And no, I don't really find that too ironic.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by Jeratain

And no, I don't really find that too ironic.

It's highly ironic. The movie was made in 1942, Germany had invaded France because France and England got together, and they declared war on her. There was no holocaust at this point. The war had started through the run-of-the-mill European balance of power aggression on the part of established imperial powers. France paid the price for the war she had risked. Morocco was gobbled up with French aggression some time before. The film is set in Morocco, and it glorifies French freedom fighting. The irony is huge

 

[WillJ]

Hmm, that's pretty ironic. Never saw Casablaca, so I can't say that I did or did not notice it.

Originally posted by calgacus
The movie was made in 1942, Germany had invaded France because France and England got together and they declared war on her. There was no holocaust at this point.

Um, the Holocaust began in 1933.

 

[onejayhawk]

Originally posted by calgacus
It's highly ironic. The movie was made in 1942, Germany had invaded France because France and England got together and they declared war on her. There was no holocaust at this point. The war had started through the run-of-the-mill European balance of power aggression on the part of established imperial powers. France paid the price for the war she had risked. Morocco was gobbled up with French aggression some time before. The film is set in Morocco, and it glorifies French freedom fighting. The irony is huge

Actually the film was shot and edited in 1942. The first screenplay, much less the storyline would have been well before that.

Still you are absolutely correct. Look at the characters: cynical American mercenary, cynical French collaborative official, beautiful French girl with divided loyalties, and the only real movie star looker in the male cast, the Aryan ideal, is the French dissident. Everyone falls over his/her own feet trying to help the others. Oh yes, the irony is thick. The extra twist of glorifying resistance fighters in a clonial territory is icing on a cake.

J

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by WillJ
Hmm, that's pretty ironic. Never saw Casablaca, so I can't say that I did or did not notice it.Um, the Holocaust began in 1933.

Mass extermination of Jews (the Holocaust by most definitions) began in 1942 (or was it later?). Politicians in the West weren't fully aware of its full extent until 1945. The point is, the war wasn't started because of a genocidal dictator, even if he happened to become that later.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by onejayhawk
Actually the film was shot and edited in 1942. The first screenplay, much less the storyline would have been well before that.

J

That strengthens my point

 

[jack merchant]

Originally posted by calgacus


Mass extermination of Jews (the Holocaust by most definitions) began in 1942 (or was it later?). Politicians in the West weren't fully aware of its full extent until 1945. The point is, the war wasn't started because of a genocidal dictator, even if he happened to become that later.

Well, if you're referring to the Wannsee conference where the Endlösung was formally adopted as policy, I think that happened in January 1943. However, the evilness of the Nazi Reich was apparent well before that, as camps for political dissidents, Jews and the mentally ill were set up much earlier (Dachau in 1937, iirc) and the persecution began almost right after Hitler became Reichskanzler. Not to mention the Einsatzgruppen who committed innumerable acts of mass murder after the invasion of Russia.
And that's even without mentioning the Nazi pioneering of terror bombing as a means of war in Guernica, Rotterdam and the Blitz.

The point is, Britain and France may not have fully realized how evil Hitler truly was when they declared war in 1939 (over the unprovoked invasion of Poland - rather a good casus belli imho) but the threat he represented to freedom was apparent enough.

Which is why Casablanca was fully justified in glorifying the Free French, imho. In the context of the time, colonialism wasn't as discredited as it is now (otherwise, the British should have been portrayed less kindly there and in other movies, too).

 

[Ukas]

Wannsee had to be earlier, Heydrich took part and he was dead by 1943.

 

[jack merchant]

My memory ain't what it used to be 1941 or 1942 then. It doesn't change my point much though

 

[kojimanard]

Casblanca has everything. Irony is one aspect. I think its better than Citizen Kane, they usually are 1-2 in greatest movie polls. Think of quotes:
I'm shocked, shocked
Round up the usual suspects
This is the beginning of a great friendship
We'll always have Paris
Here's looking at you
Play the song, Sam (through legend it became "play it again Sam")
Doesnt amount to a hill of beans

There are many more.

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by calgacus
Mass extermination of Jews (the Holocaust by most definitions) began in 1942 (or was it later?). Politicians in the West weren't fully aware of its full extent until 1945. The point is, the war wasn't started because of a genocidal dictator, even if he happened to become that later.

Daschau (sp?), the first concentration camp, was set up in 1933, and from what I've read that's usually when the Holocaust is considered to have begun.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by jack merchant


Well, if you're referring to the Wannsee conference where the Endlösung was formally adopted as policy, I think that happened in January 1943. However, the evilness of the Nazi Reich was apparent well before that, as camps for political dissidents, Jews and the mentally ill were set up much earlier (Dachau in 1937, iirc) and the persecution began almost right after Hitler became Reichskanzler. Not to mention the Einsatzgruppen who committed innumerable acts of mass murder after the invasion of Russia.
And that's even without mentioning the Nazi pioneering of terror bombing as a means of war in Guernica, Rotterdam and the Blitz.

The point is, Britain and France may not have fully realized how evil Hitler truly was when they declared war in 1939 (over the unprovoked invasion of Poland - rather a good casus belli imho) but the threat he represented to freedom was apparent enough.

Which is why Casablanca was fully justified in glorifying the Free French, imho. In the context of the time, colonialism wasn't as discredited as it is now (otherwise, the British should have been portrayed less kindly there and in other movies, too).

Yes, England and France didn't give two f*cking pies about freedom. They were happy to ally with Stalin's Soviet Union, and to rule over most of the world. What they cared about was preventing Germany becoming strong enough to threaten their imperialistic policies. The guarantee on Poland was an aggressive act of interference to protect Polish rule over German territories and prevent the incorporation of the willing German city of Danzig.

Poland was another aggressive, militaristic despotism. It had no moral superiority over Germany at the period. It was quite happy to take its greedy share in Czechoslovakia when that country fell apart. Polish-state innocence is one of the biggest misconceptions (lies?) in the history of that period. The fact that it was weak does not make any difference.

Nazi aggression towards its own minorities was significant, but not even an issue for the allies.

The fact that colonialism wasn't discredited then makes no difference. Subjecting the French against their will is no better or worse than subjecting Moroccans. At least the Moroccans didn't start the war that cost them their freedom. The story behind the annexation of Morocco is not particularly dignified for Europeans.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by WillJ
Daschau (sp?), the first concentration camp, was set up in 1933, and from what I've read that's usually when the Holocaust is considered to have begun.

Putting people in "concentration camps" is the same as imprisoning them. The important moral factor is the genocide, not the word "concentration camp"

 

[Ukas]

@jack

No, it doesn't - I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by jack merchant


(over the unprovoked invasion of Poland - rather a good casus belli imho)

The invasion was hardly unprovoked. The ignominious treaty of Versailles had provoked it by applying the principles of national determination to almost everyone except the Germans. Poland arrogantly refused to make any concessions. War was hardly surprising.