The House of Windsor and Continental European monarchies

[Loaf Warden]

I keep seeing people around here complaining about the British monarchy. There are a lot of people here who say that it is ridiculous for Britain to maintain its monarchy, since monarchy is outdated, the Queen doesn't do anything, and the Royal Family is an embarrassment.

Very well. But what about Europe's other monarchies? Britain is far from the only European nation to maintain its monarchy, yet I can't recall ever seeing anyone complain about any other monarchy. People keep saying Queen Elizabeth has to go . . . but I've never seen anyone say that Queen Beatrix has to go. To my knowledge, no one here has ever claimed that King Albert was a relic, or Queen Margaret, or King Harold. I've never seen anyone complain that King Juan Carlos or Prince Hans-Adam were an embarassment.

Why not?

Is there something about the House of Windsor itself that's so bad? Are they more prone to scandal than the other royal houses of Europe? If Britain maintained its monarchy rather than switching to a republic, would they be better off dropping the Windsors and installing a different royal house?

Or are the inhabitants of other European monarchies just as sick of monarchy as the Britons, but are less vocal about it because most people are more aware of Britain than they are of, say, Denmark? Would Sweden be better off as a Republic? Do the Dutch long to return to the days of the stadtholders, or are they just fine having a Queen?

Opinions from everyone here are welcomed, but I am especially seeking those of the citizens of the monarchies of continental Europe. If you live in such a country, how do you and your family and friends feel about the current system? Is there much sentiment in your country that you should change to a republic, or are most people happy with your royals?

(And I should note that I'm not trying to exclude the rest of the word by specifying Europe. If we could get, for example, some Thais to comment on King Rama IX or some Japanese to comment on the Heisei Emperor, that would be great. But as such a large proportion of this board's posters are European, I figured I'd simply get more responses about those countries anyway.)

 

[cgannon64]

Probably because the British are the most obvious examples.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

Originally posted by Loaf Warden
I've never seen anyone complain that King Juan Carlos or Prince Hans-Adam were an embarassment.

If I'm not mistaken, Hans-Adam is a Habsburg, just not from the direct line that once ruled Austria. If so, he doesn't need to do anything to be an embarassment. It's in his genes

That said, there was a referendum over there a few years ago that gave the Prince expanded executive authority, making him the most powerful monarch on the European continent.

 

[Loaf Warden]

Originally posted by SeleucusNicator

That said, there was a referendum over there a few years ago that gave the Prince expanded executive authority, making him the most powerful monarch on the European continent.

Considering his country is the last surviving remnant of the Holy Roman Empire, I can't decide if that's fitting or ironic.

 

[Pariah]

As the former rulers of the vastest empire in history, we British are often seen as a nation in decline - and our monarchy as the symbol of redundancy in a changing World. Others monarchies have less distinguished (or less well-known) histories, and as such get less global media attention, positive or negative.

TV and newspaper polls have always indicated that the majority of UK citizens still support the institution of manarchy. The Royal Family are, after all, part of our national identity, a useful source of income from tourism, and popular informal ambassadors.

 

[Hitro]

I've always said that I want them all gone.

In a free and Democratic country there should be no place for remnants of dictatorships.

But Britain simply is the by far most influencial country of those that still have a monarchy in Europe. Furthermore the British royal family seems to be exceptionally idiotic and distanced from the people, while many of the "smaller" monarchies are actually well-liked by big parts of the population.

Nevertheless they have to go, it's bad enough that they're already on my money.

 

[Shadylookin]

if a dictatorship is needed to keep the country prosperous (not all republics work) then it's a necessary evil, but in the case of europe where heriditary monarchs recieve leadership simple because they had parents that were royals and the people are educated enough to be able to rule themselves it should most definatly be abolished.

 

[Johann MacLeod]

so the Hapsburgs still have Monaco and spain then?
on a side note what are the names of all of the monarcs, the ones i know are:
Sweden- Bernadotte
England- Windsor (even though i refuse to recognize that, i say its rightfully Hanover!)

 

[Loaf Warden]

The royal houses speficially mentioned in my records are:

United Kingdom: Windsor
Spain: Bourbon
Sweden: Bernadotte
Denmark: Oldenburg
Monaco: Grimaldi

I'm not sure what the names are of the royal houses of Norway or the Low Countries. It's been implied that the royal house of Liechtenstein is Habsburg, but I'm not sure about that. And I believe all the other European nations are now republics, so that should be everyone. But I stand ready to be corrected.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Originally posted by Hitro
I've always said that I want them all gone.

In a free and Democratic country there should be no place for remnants of dictatorships.

But Britain simply is the by far most influencial country of those that still have a monarchy in Europe. Furthermore the British royal family seems to be exceptionally idiotic and distanced from the people, while many of the "smaller" monarchies are actually well-liked by big parts of the population.

Nevertheless they have to go, it's bad enough that they're already on my money.

The Windsors are part of the British (at least English) national identity. I consider Europe is enough stable today to keep the Windsors as they are. Even if I agree we can consider them as a weirdos family, they harm no one.

About the money, it's true it's funny to see crowned heads on our coins in France ! Didn't we cut the head of our king 200 years ago ? Why are they back in our currency then ?

PS : Please, people of the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain, don't take it bad ! It was just a joke ! I'm glad to see Queen Beatrix or King Juan Carlos on our coins ! Actually, I'm really proud we share the same currency.

 

[Sims2789]

i think it is silly for Spain to have a monarchy. i mean, his line has only been in power for around 25 years, and they hadn't had one for at least 60 years before Jaun Carlos got in power. if they are to have monarchies, the monarchs are to have no power. none. nada. and they should have to be old monarchies, not new ones in power for no reason other than to say, "we have a king!" anyway, all monarchies are outdated, and the monarchs need to gain the rights of the "commoners" and quit sapping the treasuries of their host countries for extravagences. my country hasn't had a monarchy since 1776(George III of England). we came close though. Washington was offered the crown, but rejected it. also, this is off-topic, but how does the Vatican's goervnment run? is it a popeocracy(pope as dictator)?

EDIT: just found out Juan Carlos is descended from the old monarchy line from before the Republic in 1931. from what i read about him he seems like a good king, but monarchies are still silly and obsolete.

 

[Loaf Warden]

Originally posted by sims2789
i think it is silly for Spain to have a monarchy. i mean, his line has only been in power for around 25 years, and they hadn't had one for at least 60 years before Jaun Carlos got in power.

Actually, his line, the Bourbons, first took power in Spain in 1700. Though it's also true that his line has been interrupted by two republics, an elective monarchy, and an outright dicatorship since then.

EDIT: Oh, you know that now. Still, I would hardly consider Francisco Franco's fascist dictatorship (1939-1975) as being a candidate for legitimate government of Spain. I would much rather live under a powerless king than a fascist dictator!

also, this is off-topic, but how does the Vatican's goervnment run? is it a popeocracy(pope as dictator)?

It's a theocracy, rule by religious leader. I'm not positive about it, but I would assume his word is law within the Vatican, since the whole purpose of the Vatican is to be a region controlled directly by the Pope, and having a legislative body with the power to contradict him would run contrary to the Catholic tenet of the Pope as infallible.

 

[Mazarin]

Originally posted by sims2789
also, this is off-topic, but how does the Vatican's goervnment run? is it a popeocracy(pope as dictator)?

more of a corporatism, I'd have to guess...you can only be a citizen if you work in Vatican; even the artisans whose families have been living there for ceturies would loose their citizenship if they decided to work outside.

I don't really have a problem with monarchies, as long as their powers are strictly limited. They are unfair, of course, but they don't harm anyone and are just a tradition today. The fact that the Windsors are most heavily debated likely lies in the number of scandals they've been producing over the years.

 

[Sims2789]

i live in a society where the monarchy is looked down apon and we have never had a monarchy and been a soverign nation at the same time. this is hard to explain, but basically, i don't really understand the traditionism in monarchies. if they don't have ANY power and no new ones pop up(old ones are there for tradition only) AND the people are okay with it, then that is fine with me. but i truely can't understand since it is something so foreign to me.

 

[Sims2789]

Originally posted by Loaf Warden

...Oh, you know that now. Still, I would hardly consider Francisco Franco's fascist dictatorship (1939-1975) as being a candidate for legitimate government of Spain. I would much rather live under a powerless king than a fascist dictator!...

very true. but even better than a powerless king is a real Parlamentary system.

 

[Akka]

Well, don't talk bad about Juan Carlos. He's the guy who inherited nearly absolute power from a fascist dictator, and turned the country into a democracy. This kind of monarchy is quite bearable ^^

 

[stormbind]

Who cares.

What it boils down to is Britain's continued world-wide influence and international resentment towards that.

The monarchy is just an easy target for the uneducated who do not understand British political and legal framework.

We have no care what the international community outside of Comonwealth members think.

The only serious problem facing the British Monarchy is Indian influence. This a republican Commonwealth member with many immigrants in the UK.

As the Monarchy is not of the same religious faith, people of those backgrounds are emotionally opposed to the institution.

 

[Loaf Warden]

Originally posted by Mazarin


more of a corporatism, I'd have to guess...you can only be a citizen if you work in Vatican; even the artisans whose families have been living there for ceturies would loose their citizenship if they decided to work outside.

That's interesting. Would they automatically switch to Italian citizenship, or would they have no citizenship at all?

Originally posted by sims2789
very true. but even better than a powerless king is a real Parlamentary system.

Granted. As a fellow American, I'll take a president and Congress over a king any day. But still, not all countries are republics, and all I was saying is that I imagine the Spanish are better off now, under their king, than they were under the dictator who ruled them for thirty-six years before Juan Carlos took power. Whether the Spanish in general like Juan Carlos or would prefer to trade him for a President, I don't know.

 

[carlosMM]

Originally posted by stormbind
Who cares.

What it boils down to is Britain's continued world-wide influence and international resentment towards that.

bull!

The monarchy is just an easy target for the uneducated who do not understand British political and legal framework.

partly. but also a target of gossip like anyone else famous and/or glamurous.

We have no care what the international community outside of Comonwealth members think.

nice Bushism.

As the Monarchy is not of the same religious faith, people of those backgrounds are emotionally opposed to the institution.

funny, the Indians and Pakistani *I* met in the UK all were kinda proud of the fact that they live in a country of strong traditions, (some of which stem from their own home lands), including the monarchy and royal family.

 

[Kinniken]

If it amuses the countries in question to have a King/Queen, let them! However, France remains a republic and that's just as it should be

Akka, check your PMs