The HRE was Holy, partialy Roman, and an Empire!

[Da_V_Man]

oh god a canuck.

Me? No way! I was just pointing out that everyone is flipping out about the HRE and how Poland should've been in, but says nothing about NAE, even though the same arguments about the HRE can be argued about NAE and Canada

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

I'm Roman!

By your logic, I am, because I called myself Roman. I'm also holy, because I sometimes argue with important priests, and I rule an empire(never mind my kingdom/neighborhood doesn't listen to me)!

I demand that I be leader of the Holy Roman Empire. Even though that's not what I call my empire, and my subjects are Americans, think of themselves as Americans, and have virtually the same culture as Americans!

 

[Sgt.Cooper]

there r too many threads arguing about Hre or poland

(but i personally like poland )

 

[aronnax]

They ain't Holy, Holy people dont shed blood, especially the blood of other Christians

They ain't Roman, Never actually ruled Rome,(at least since 1000AD) Never was govern by Romans, never was the people Roman.

They ain't an Empire, I do not count 1000 squabbling states each with their own Kings, their own goverment and their own tiny armies and wars an Empire

Conclusion, They are a bunch of Imperial Pudding heads

 

[Jaybe]

Imperial Pudding is not a civ, will NOT be in the game, and if the shedding of other people's blood is unholy, then there hasn't been a holy civ (or even large group of people, for crying out loud) for any significant period of time throughout history!

 

[aronnax]

Imperial Pudding is not a civ, will NOT be in the game, and if the shedding of other people's blood is unholy, then there hasn't been a holy civ (or even large group of people, for crying out loud) for any significant period of time throughout history!

You dont see many countries calling themselves Holy do you now

 

[Da_V_Man]

You dont see many countries calling themselves Holy do you now

You don't see many countries calling themselves empires either, especially the Native Americans

 

[aronnax]

You don't see many countries calling themselves empires either, especially the Native Americans

Um what has this got to do with anything?

 

[Da_V_Man]

Um what has this got to do with anything?

The fact that everyone has a bias against the HRE while the native Americans were never unified.

 

[Lone Wolf]

You are litterally adding in a second Germany, it means squat if they were powerful, just becuase the Song dynasty were powerful, influential, and highly advanced does not mean they are a different civ than China.

Agreed. 789587849okdf

 

[aronnax]

The fact that everyone has a bias against the HRE while the native Americans were never unified.

Dont be sad, we are all equally pissed at that too but you see, this is a HRE thread

 

[Pangur Bán]

Dont be sad, we are all equally pissed at that too but you see, this is a HRE thread

Well, I'm not. I don't mind non-unified civs anywhere near as much as I hate duplicate/clone civs like the HRE.

 

[Henrik]

They are called the Holy Roman Empire because THAT WAS THE NAME THEY TOOK FOR THEMSELVES! Some leaders were pious, some were not, some took the Rome succession to heart, others couldn't care less.
HRE was no more or less an "Empire" than most other european powers in it's day. England had a "King", but it was the nobles who owned the land and could overrule the King when needed (magna carta).

If two english nobles would go to war with eachother it would be considered a civil war. The states within the holy roman empire where at war all the time. Also the dukes, princes, kings, etc within the empire all had independent foreign policies. Other surrounding non HRE states could conquer land inside "the empire" and it would still be considered part of the empire, etc. All of these doesn't correspond to other states of the time.

Almost every other feudal power worked the same way.

And most feudal powers aren't in civ either Those that are are those that managed to transition to nation states. That's how the HRE stand out (along with Byzantium)

HRE is in. It should be in. It was pretty powerful in its time, about a millenia, and no less united than Native Americans, Greeks, Vikings, Chinese or Japan. It was a feudal empire, it served it's time, get over it.

Agreed for the native americans and Japan (actually Japan is pretty much exactly the same thing as the HRE but with a different outcome). Disagree about all the others. Also Japan is atleast unified by culture. The only culture predominant in the HRE was german

 

[Lone Wolf]

That's how the HRE stand out (along with Byzantium)

Byzantium empire was never feudal. They had a strong central goverment all the time.

 

[r_rolo1]

Byzantium empire was never feudal. They had a strong central goverment all the time.

Not always, specially after 1204 ( the Fourth Crusade ).

 

[TheLastOne36]

Not a canuck. Just someone who studies a variety of histories and writings and isn't above lifting a favorite word or two when it seems appropriate (also incredibly humble).
But I'm sure you'll agree you're being silly pining for your precious Poland and your dislike of the HRE is completely out of spite. I'm glad I've been able to enlighten you with the help of other posters and you will be enriched from this experience. Eh?

Your canadian as well? I never knew that. :rollseye: And why are people keep on saying this. before HRE was known, i specificly said "I don't care if it's Austria or Poland as logn as it's one of them, but hopefully it's poland)"

Me? No way! I was just pointing out that everyone is flipping out about the HRE and how Poland should've been in, but says nothing about NAE, even though the same arguments about the HRE can be argued about NAE and Canada

No the arguing has been more then just abhotu Poland. Austria Hungary, Ukraine, Vietnam, Australia, (dare i say it) Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Gran Colombia, Polynesia, Swahili, Congo and lastly Manchuria.

Poland just stands out cause it's so awesome! 1/100

(but i personally like poland )

Please don't tell me your one of those ignorant people who want hitler as the leader...

Ok... The Holy Roman Empire isn't, wasn't, and never was Holy, Roman nor an Empire.

Happy?

(also on the canadian thing, don't you think it's weird that only canadians say canada should be in?)

 

[SomethingWicked]

And most feudal powers aren't in civ either Those that are are those that managed to transition to nation states. That's how the HRE stand out (along with Byzantium)

But that's also true for the Native Americans that never made the transition to a unified nation-state, or Carthage which was just a Phoenician city-state or the Zulus, Babylonia and Sumeria.

Ok... The Holy Roman Empire isn't, wasn't, and never was Holy, Roman nor an Empire.

I suppose that, now, that's what everybody knows.

Does it matter that the HRE was not a nation-state? Before Westphalia, there were no nation-states in the modern sense. Also, the HRE is not the only example of a country (that exists on Civilization) that has been absorbed into another entity at some time or other in history. Just think of Carthage and Rome, or Persia and the Arab Muslim conquests, the Aztecs, the Maya and the Inca v. Spain..

(also on the canadian thing, don't you think it's weird that only canadians say canada should be in?)

Isn't is weird that mostly Poles say Poland should be in? Actually, I don't think so.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Isn't is weird that mostly Poles say Poland should be in? Actually, I don't think so.

No look, we're not the onyl ones that want Poland in. I think many votes in polls aren't from poles There are simply not enough poles here to get to 100 votes.

You lose.

 

[r_rolo1]

Does it matter that the HRE was not a nation-state? Before Westphalia, there were no nation-states in the modern sense.

Sorry, but that is wrong. My country was a nation state before Westphalia, and I bevieve that others (like maybe Denmark) were too. Of course that maybe your definition of nation-state is diferent from mine....

 

[SomethingWicked]

Isn't is weird that mostly Poles say Poland should be in? Actually, I don't think so.

Of course, that's a bold claim I can't verify - and don't care to, incidentally. It just seems sensible that people from a certain country would like to see it included in Civ.

No look, we're not the onyl ones that want Poland in. I think many votes in polls aren't from poles There are simply not enough poles here to get to 100 votes.

How do you know? And how do you know the same thing does not apply to Canada as well?

You lose.

I don't think so.