The Huns-the strongest civ?

ginaman

Chieftain
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I am a peace maker and I don't declare wars against other civilizations unless they start the wars first. I have played all civilizations no higher than prince level, however, I noticed that the Huns are just crazily powerful. I started to rush religion and tech, but with the battering ram, along with any other soldiers, I can easily conquer any civilization near me or not near me! I have never played such a powerful civilization before, not persia, not china, not inca...

Do you guys agree with me? Is this normal?
 
You're playing on prince with a civ that has 2 powerful uus very early. On higher lvls the challenge is transitioning them from that rush to a div with enough infrastructure to tech and have an economy to develop. I don't think they're as strong as you do.
 
We have too many threads regarding xyz civ is the most powerful these days.

Anyway back on topic, Huns are quite OP in certain conditions. The 2 most important reasons are warrior upgrading to rams resulting in a civ eliminated as early as turn 7. The other reason is that AI doesn't know how to handle rams, they simply can't defend against them (or attack using them as Huns). Coupled with strong & cheap horse archers they are pretty unstoppable against AI even on higher difficulties.
 
You're playing on prince with a civ that has 2 powerful uus very early. On higher lvls the challenge is transitioning them from that rush to a div with enough infrastructure to tech and have an economy to develop. I don't think they're as strong as you do.

I agree with Superfeds.

While the Unique Units might provide you with a clear early game advantage, once that timetable that your advantage relies on expires, you might have to face a civilization down histories lane with its own superior Unique Units that out-class that of your aging units.

You really need to balance your early power with a forward thinking strategy. Sure, you might be able to defeat a nearby Civilization or even perhaps two. However, what has that done to your production, your economy and etc.! Will your Civilization still have what it takes to move forward into the next era when guns reign supreme, and your civilizations happiness and growth is bogged down by the conquests of yesterday’s wars?

Personally, with such powerful unique early game units, it might be a better strategy to pillage essential resources that your competitor nation relies upon rather than capturing or razing his/her cities. It can none-the-less put them behind economically in such a way as to provide you with a distinct advantage later on; all of this without crippling your own economy by taking on more cities that your empire can handle.

Don’t misunderstand me however; an early capture of a city or even two can be beneficial. However, expending so many hammers (:c5production: ) to develop troops when you could have been building centers for education to maintain a technological level playing field, can often be a fatal mistake! Well, that is my advice and opinion on the matter.
 
I would not vote strongest, one trick ponies are have one trick, and the huns are the perfect example. If you cant/dont rush early, they loose almost all their civ advantages.

Science boost civs are much stronger.
 
How couldn't you/not want to rush early as the Huns? That's like playing Ethiopia and REX'ing, it's just Moderator Action: Removed offensive word.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889.

This particular one-trick pony can snipe out a continent really early.
 
Actually, Ethiopia is REALLY good at rexing if you go the religious route. With an almost 100% chance of getting the 1st pantheon and religion, you can focus all your faith in whatever the game need. Happiness, production, population and soldiers can all be obtained trough faith, and Ethiopia's Stele is the best thing for a huge amount of religion.

Sure, your UA and UU will be rendered useless, but when you can spawn two pikeman per turn by faith alone, who cares?

Moderator Action: Please stay on topic.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
I would dare say England has more power - extra spy, longbow and ship of the line? i just don't see Huns being stronger, besides it isn't hard to route those pesky rams and outmaneuver the horse archers.
 
The Huns are strong early but the problem I usually face with them is that while I am warring early and taking out some civs, the rest are advancing and are stronger in techs then I am. So while I took out some easy targets right away, I'm now in a weaker position.

In one game, I took out Korea in the teens and then took out France. But Greece in the Ottomans out teched me quite a bit and stomped me into the ground with their muskets...
 
I am a peace maker and I don't declare wars against other civilizations unless they start the wars first. I have played all civilizations no higher than prince level, however, I noticed that the Huns are just crazily powerful. I started to rush religion and tech, but with the battering ram, along with any other soldiers, I can easily conquer any civilization near me or not near me! I have never played such a powerful civilization before, not persia, not china, not inca...

Do you guys agree with me? Is this normal?

I played them against a Prince level AI in a multiplayer game, and they're good at that level because the AI won't have the number of defending units it builds (or is given) at higher levels. But they aren't an especially powerful civ overall, considering all single-player difficulties as well as multiplayer. Strong certainly, but I wouldn't rank them in the top tier of civs.

They run out of steam conquest-wise long before you eradicate everyone on all but the smallest maps, and then you have to develop a way of winning the game with effectively no early economy (early focus on combat techs, high early unit maintenance costs) and a whole bunch of population-halved puppet cities that you have to annex and develop. This is fine on Prince, where the AI develops at glacial pace itself, but it gives Huns a slow mid-game on higher difficulties that can be critical.

On the highest levels, you are often going to be the subject of an early rush yourself, and with no spearmen the Huns are not strong defensively in the early game - if you don't rush first (and your rush is four techs away even with free Animal Husbandry), or your rush doesn't work, you pretty much auto-lose the game on Deity.

In multiplayer, the Huns can be anticipated and prepared for in a way an AI can't prepare for a specific civ's rush (and in single-player with an AI opponent, which is partly why if they start next to the human, or as in one of my games an AI with a human ally, the Huns will - in my experience - pretty much invariably be very weak), and the Hun player will find it very difficult to keep up the rush past the first one or two cities - by which time the humans will likely have better-developed cities of their own. It takes a lot of horse archer fire to kill a spearman (let alone a swordsman), and only one spearmen to block and render useless a battering ram by reducing its health to the point where an archer garrison or city can kill it or make it irrelevant. A couple of spears, a wall and an archer garrison is enough to defeat most Hun rushes. Once the rams die, you're basically out of time however many horse archers you have left.

I've seen others point out that you also pay a heavy diplomatic price for the early warmongering, and since the Huns (unlike Japan or other civs with warmonger UAs) can't keep up the warmonger game all game long, this is a definite disadvantage when trying to transition into the later game with everyone else using Research Agreements to speed ahead, or launching joint declarations of war while you can't find allies.
 
Every civ can beat 1 or 2 AIs, sit down and build up until peaceful victory. What is ''special'' with the Huns is they can continuously take capitals and conquer everyone faster than a lot of other civs because their UUs last longer. But i think Mongolia, Arabia or China beat them for fastest domination victory for immortal and deity because their UUs are a lot stronger mid game.
 
I could see the overpowered argument playing them on a map where the # of civs is maxed out and many city states but otherwise the huns would be a problem after medieval because of the time it would take to conquer and consolidate. I played them where I just went with untampered set-up and did not use the ram and barely used the hore archers. Nobody was close enough to make it worth the hassle.
 
Ginaman, yes the Huns are powerful early on. But once you hit medieval era, you will find their power wanes.

Not a fair comparison, since it's an AI and the AI is uniquely badly-suited to playing the Huns (Battering Ram = unique spearman, puppet cities all game long), but Attila's doing better than I've yet seen him in my new Emperor game. I rolled a four-civ map - apparently two continents, one with three civs, the other with the remaining as-yet-uncontacted civ.

Attila actually behaved in a way I haven't seen from the AI before. His rush was late, and light on rams (though he turned out to have enough), but with a lot of Warriors supporting his horse archers; the AI even used them appropriately to do the fighting instead of trying to attack with rams. I was keeping my scout watching him, and prepared as he moved in my direction (as usual he was behind in tech, but this is a Hun thing more than an AI thing - no Pottery rush, no Libraries). He declared war on Kuala Lumpur, the perpetual punching-bag CS of my games and my close neighbour and protectorate. I moved my army too slowly - KL would have fallen the next turn. But Attila suddenly declared peace, perhaps an AI calculation that it was now in two wars (I declared on him as soon as he hit KL), and withdrew, basically blunting the rush.

Until he came back, to find Elizabeth still unprepared. So he took London - it's a shame that in a mutual war you can't get open borders without Civil Service (I was several turns away from it at this point). It didn't take long for me to take it back and, because I'm a sucker for being the good guy, I liberated Elizabeth (plus I was thinking of a diplo victory, although I'm currently both tech and culture leader. Starting CSes make a big difference with Siam - I had two cultural and one maritime within reach from close to the start). Nevertheless, the Huns had adapted remarkably well - conserving most of their army after aborting the attack on KL, they'd actually expanded naturally several times. They're currently putting up a strong fight; capturing the (Hunnic-founded) city of Coventry took a while, and they then showed up with a giant army that forced me to retreat and leave the city to them (EDIT: Well, what I'm actually going to do is give it to Elizabeth - who isn't at war with them - which will at least remove the Hun army from the city's borders). Though this is now a standard game, the Huns have retired both their UUs (early Renaissance for them, two turns away from the Industrial Era for me).

Overall, though, aside from his rather pointless refusal to declare peace (gigantic army and all that) when I'd happily do so having achieved my main objectives, the AI is actually playing the Huns the way a player would play them - going for easy early kills, avoiding confrontations that will cost them vital units or time delays for the rush, and taking time out to expand and develop. It's working well - he's recovered somewhat from the loss of London, he's still behind techwise, but chances are so would a human player be.

And the AI's experience has lessons for the human - the assumption has been (and I'm equally guilty of it) that the Huns go in, grab a few choice early cities, burn out but still have a decent base to develop from. But bear in mind my earlier point that the Huns suck on defence in the early game (and even more so when they're carrying on the rush to hit the next target) - they get the big cities early, but quite aside from the challenge of the mid-game transition, there's no guarantee they'll hold on to the early conquests long enough to develop them into useful cities.

Overall I find the Huns very well-balanced - they're nowhere close to as strong as they appear on paper or on low difficulty levels, and indeed the challenge of using them well is such that in the hands of an average player they're probably a weaker than average civ, but the considerations you have to juggle as Attila - how to develop past the early game, how to survive the early game with your new conquests intact, how to mitigate the later-game effects of all those early warmonger penalties - make them a very strategic civ to play, and very much not a one-trick pony. Sure they have essentially one trick at the very start of the game, but then that's also true of, say, Babylon or the Maya, who follow stereotyped routes to early teching if they want to maximise their advantages.
 
They are very strong. Battering rams are good for taking out one or two (if you're lucky) neighbors on deity. However, they upgrade to trebuchets, and horse archers, which can get the march promotion very easily, upgrade to knights. So, even though their main advantage is in the classical age, they still get a head start on medieval warfare.

One of the stronger civs at higher levels, I think.
 
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