The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #8 - Sweden

Gustavus Rex

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The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #8

Welcome to the Immortal difficulty version of the biweekly The Deity Challenge Lineup-event.

ICL Game #8
You - Sweden
Total Civilizations - 8
Total City States -16
Map – Pangea
Settings – Quick quick combat(turn it back on if you would like). Raging barbarians is turned ON. Everything else is set to default.
Game Version -
Downloadable Content – G&K, BNW, Conquest of the New World Deluxe, Genghis Khan's Mongolia, Harold Bluetooth's Denmark, Isabella’s Sapin and Pachacuti's Incan Empire, Kamehameha's Polynesian Empire, Nebruchadnezzar's Babylon, Sejong The Great's Korea, Wonders of the Ancient World. The map pack are intentionally excluded.

Starting location:



Schedule:

Game #1 - July 23th as Japan
Game #2 - August 6th as Poland
Game #3 - August 20th as Ottomans
Game #4 - September 3th as Arabia
Game #5 - September 17th as Brazil
Game #6 - October 1th as Denmark
Game #7 October 15th as Songhai
Game #8 October 29th as Sweden
Game #9

NEW!

Map providers optional quests.

1. Found protestantism and get Defender of the faith

2. Build NO world wonders!

3. You can't dow! If someone dow you, you can't make peace until after you conquered the attackers capital!

Information & rules cut, pasted and slightly changed from The Deity Challenge Lineup:

Spoiler :
All games in this series will be set to IMMORTAL difficulty. User civilizations, maps, and opponents will change each game, but the pace will always be set at standard and the starting era will always be ancient. We will try for a variety of starts, and not just having a crazy warmonger as your next door neighbor (although there will be that too). This isn't a competition so there will be no predefined victory conditions. New challenges in the series will be posted every other Wednesday.

Who can play?
Anybody can play. The more the merrier. Even if you normally don't play immortal games you are still welcome to try. The games can become great learning resources for the player trying to improve. Even if you don't finish the game, we are still interested to hear about your experience.

Do's and Don'ts
We are going to be using the honor system. Feel free to restart, reload, play the same game multiple times, but don't use the science overflow exploit. Also please don't edit the game in IGE. If you do chose to cheat, please don't share your results in the comments. Also, please use the spoiler tag if you post a picture, comment about neighboring civs, close by wonders, or locations of ancient ruins.

Also, please tell us about your Build Order, Social Policies, Tech Order, and what type of wonders you went after. I know a lot of this stuff seems pretty mundane to the experienced player, but the details are incredibly useful to people trying to learn.

Future Games in the Series
I want users to submit saves from turn 0. Preferably the person submitting the game has played enough turns to know the map is either difficult, fun, or unique in some enjoyable way. Write a short description as to why it is special and email the save to immortalchallengelineup@gmail.com

Important
If you submit a game for the challenge, you must have the DLC map packs disabled. Not everybody has them and they are honestly kind of useless. Having them disabled will allow more participants.
 

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Looks like the Deity Rome challenge but even fewer resources in the tundra...eek. Deciding if I want to try this one. May cross the river and see if you things look any brighter than playing sad times in the cold tundra
 
Looks like the Deity Rome challenge but even fewer resources in the tundra...eek. Deciding if I want to try this one. May cross the river and see if you things look any brighter than playing sad times in the cold tundra

It's a fun map. Perfect for Swedish honor fury! Give it a chance!
 
I will definitely play this one. I love stomping the AI with near immortal march units.
 
It's a fun map. Perfect for Swedish honor fury! Give it a chance!

Spoiler :
Oh the joys I came across on turn 15 meeting the neighbors.....I'm definitely not a warmonger, and who are the neighbors I might ask.....two of the most aggressive in the game :cry:
 
Having trouble
Spoiler :
Struggling to get going here, very meh terrain.

If going for a domination win, is it best to try and avoid the warmongers early game? i.e. bribing Genghis to go after the Zulus and then head up to take on ethiopia/greece?? Or is all that unit fighting good for early logistics/range which should make the rest of the game a walk?
 
Having trouble
Spoiler :
Struggling to get going here, very meh terrain.

If going for a domination win, is it best to try and avoid the warmongers early game? i.e. bribing Genghis to go after the Zulus and then head up to take on ethiopia/greece?? Or is all that unit fighting good for early logistics/range which should make the rest of the game a walk?

I expect to have trouble also with this one. I civ I know absolutely nothing about (never played them). I can get into trouble often from a military standpoint on Immortal (a main reason I don't try Deity) and there's a good chance that I'll be dead by the time my UU's could come into play.

This weekend I should have some time to finish the Songhai game and hopefully start this Halloween horror. I've been messing around with other civs and start up ideas since the patch.
 
t100
Spoiler :
Lotsa gold. I love raging barbs, many quests fulfilled, returned some workers, kept a barb/Ethiopian worker. Pissed that I didn't get a religion - Korea nabbed DofAurora first. I took Goddess of Hunt, which has been very helpful, bummed I will lose it.

Wandered a bit, and settled river hill to the W. I probably should have expo'd Mt Kailash first - but I didn't want to lose the W ivory cluster with gold in range. Then settled near RoG which has been a cash machine but no production - there were still barbs everywhere at that point, and I was not keen on further forward settling Mongolia and Zulu with no intention of Domination. 4th city will have decent food, I had planned to settle SE near river, near silver, but wanted to block Ethiopia. Had DOF offered from Khan and Shaka, no thanks. Bribed one war, looked like nothing happened. Considered bribing Khan to take Florence - 9 horses might fuel him enough to take down Shaka. Shaka hit Medieval a while ago, I can't believe he hasn't DOW'd anyone, and won't take bribes, wtf? He even has a religion, which seems rare. Still haven't met 8th civ.

Got lots of goodies, popped a pop hut when I settled (nice), AH, map, culture, 95g. Opened Trad, then opened Honor, filling Trad. Tech-wise not so good, haven't even started NC yet. BO - Scout x2, Shrine, Granary, Archer x3, Worker, Settler x2, Archer, etc.
Spoiler :


t164 - Game has gotten wacky - Khan built Machu with only 2 cities, Shaka is pledging protection to CS's and has gone 5 Liberty and 3 Aesthetics??? Alex had OB with Helie, and marched about 5-6 units down to my border, so I bribed him v Heile, and he took 2 cities. I retook them easily with my small force, was gonna liberate, but Harar has several lux, so kept both. Still sending a settler down SE for silver, and for cargo food to Helsinki.

Shaka is not liked, he DOW'd Khan and his expo flipped a lot but finally stayed Zulu. Karakorum was beaten down to 1/3, but is finally trying to rebound - he has a nice mtn in the way. Khan has DOF with Alex, I am considering trying to take his cap from behind. Either that or maybe liberate his expo. Shaka is not in beast mode with no Honor. USA finally DOW'd Shaka, but so far away. Korea expo'd x2 way SE of his cap on other side of mtns, no roads, so vulnerable, I can't believe Shaka didn't take them first.

My plan has just been to fill my space and probably go Diplo, which would be easier if Alex got crushed. SV should be easy, I don't relish trying for late DomV with all the bad terrain. Losing my food from camps has been a big setback, but at least Heile's religion has Mosques.

I proposed WF, should maybe have done Arts Funding for more GP, but keeping Korea happy for now, long-time DOF with him and USA. Will likely go Order to have a better shot at late game DOFs. Heile is down to one city, but I think he'll keep it.
Spoiler :
 

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I expect to have trouble also with this one. I civ I know absolutely nothing about (never played them). I can get into trouble often from a military standpoint on Immortal (a main reason I don't try Deity) and there's a good chance that I'll be dead by the time my UU's could come into play.

This weekend I should have some time to finish the Songhai game and hopefully start this Halloween horror. I've been messing around with other civs and start up ideas since the patch.

Spoiler :
I was hoping for one big love fest to spam great person generation from the UA. Ironically I just finished the Arabic Immortal game and was friendly with Shaka the entire game and had several research agreements completed even with contested borders. They did decide to backstab me but learned artillery and GWinfantry are no match for bombers fighters and rocket artillery. With some luck maybe I can be friendly with both of the warmongers......I'm not counting on it :lol:
 
Spoiler :
just finished education 3 cities so far. Entire world hates each other but all seem to like me. Mongols fighting Shaka. Alexander fighting Ethiopia. Denunciation all over. may actually try for a Science win just to see how long I can go before the Impis of doom come knocking for a death march
 
Spoiler :
Decided to just call it a game on~ T250. Don't have a lot of time to play and wasn't having enough fun to keep going. Korea was running away with science and Greece had all the City States. Korea's neighbors all liked him so he couldn't be stopped. Zulus took out the Mongols and kept DOW me with Greece. Not enough gold in the dirt for a good economy when they plundered all the trade routes. Plus once Ideologies kicked in I plummeted in happiness and had no trades for luxuries. Oh and not enough production to build new buildings. 25+ turns for Labs is just nasty and 325 science at T250 wasn't going to cut it.
 
T267 Diplomatic

Is anyone else playing? :D These challenges seem to have less attention than before, probably because of BE.

Spoiler :
The start was a bit unusual. First, I have never played raging barbs before so I had to build much more military to cope with that. Second, NC was delayed a lot. I am not sure if the "Tradition" change that came with the new patch has to do with it or not but I built NC only around T110 and that is with only 3 cities. Education was only around T130. Nevertheless I stole a few workers from CS and a few workers from Mongolia. Mongols tried to take Helsinki but failed. Shortly after Greece tried to take Stockholm but failed too. Meanwhile Zulu deciced to take out Mongols and America decided to take Greece and they both succeded (sooner or later). After this I had no more wars. Zulu were fighting Ehtiopians and pretty much everyone hated them. Throughout the game my allies were America and Korea.

Policies: Full tradition and rationalism, A few policies in patronage and commerce (right hand tree to buy stuff cheaper).
Ideologies: Freedom, Level 1 - specialists consume half the food, +25% GP generation; Level 2 - specialist unhappiness halved
There was a slight pressure initially (-10) because only Ehtiopia chose freedom but later the pressure was gone.

Religion: Pantheons - +1 faith from tundra; +1 gold for every 4 followers and 15% growth; +2 culture from temples and religious texts.
I would have taken religious buildings (mosques, pogodas...) but they were all taken. I could keep my religion in 3 cities throughout the game.

The tech path was usual concentrating on science building technologies first. Education ~T130, ST ~T190, Plastics T234. Bought labs in all cities. 8 turns later burned GS to Globalization. Most CS were my allies around T230 so no problem to get the necessary votes. I gave 2 GP and 1 GM to CS but I could buy them just as well.

Thank you for the map.





 

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The Honor but not the glory of Sweden.

LOSS T340 to Korea SV.

Spoiler :
It should suffice to say that my idea to open Tradition and then finish honor had me too far behind economically and technologically. I've never seen an Immortal AI run away in science like Korea did. WOW..Order on T173 for him etc. He'd almost won a CV also, and Alex was very close to a DV, although I could hold that off as I had a couple of times (gold from kills good for something)


Spoiler :
I'll try one replay and this time if I open Order after Tradition I'll not take any more Order policies unless I need them to defend myself against aggressors. I'll also do what ever I can to have Shaka fight Sejong if he runs away and to have Greece involved in early wars as well.


First time I ever played Sweden ... and yeah, I hate tundra in spite of DoA pantheon.
 
t284 DV, 46/40 votes
Spoiler :
This game got really easy really fast. I had 4 DOF's forever (USA, Mongols, Ethiopia, and Korea). I gifted all GP except GSs (planted 3 Academies well before ST) and had all CS allies really early. Even with no religion I won every faith quest, most culture quests, and easily fulfilled lux quests. I didn't get WLTK in cap until well into the 200s as nobody hooked up marble until then. Ran 3 food caravans to cap most of the time, switched some to production late. Ran food cargos between coastal cities, which was sweet. Ran some late production caravans to finish wonders - nothing else to do as I had to wait 17 turns for the vote. Only my 2nd attempt at a DV, I think I missed the window by 3 turns. I was holding some GSs, maybe if I bulbed earlier?

I never even took any 3rd level Order tenets, nothing mattered much. Rationalism closer I got stuck with only shaving 3 turns off of Mil Trad as I back-filled the lower part of the tree. Built Broadway, CN Tower, Eiffel, FP, PT, CR, Kremlin, and Neuschwanstein. I still wish there was a way to ramp up Immortal difficulty late game. I suppose I could start doing some self-imposed limits.

Shaka stayed wacky, going 5 Liberty, 3 Aesthetics, and 3 Exploration (no ocean access!). USA wonder-whored a lot, went Autocracy, and was a likely 2nd place. Ethiopia almost got crushed by Greece and USA, I spent about 100 turns cycling - surrounding his cap, then running down to keep Shaka off Khan, then back.

After playing Sweden on both Deity and Immortal, I would consider them very strong.
 

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The Honor but not the glory of Sweden.

LOSS T340 to Korea SV.

Spoiler :
It should suffice to say that my idea to open Tradition and then finish honor had me too far behind economically and technologically. I've never seen an Immortal AI run away in science like Korea did. WOW..Order on T173 for him etc. He'd almost won a CV also, and Alex was very close to a DV, although I could hold that off as I had a couple of times (gold from kills good for something)


Spoiler :
I'll try one replay and this time if I open Order after Tradition I'll not take any more Order policies unless I need them to defend myself against aggressors. I'll also do what ever I can to have Shaka fight Sejong if he runs away and to have Greece involved in early wars as well.


First time I ever played Sweden ... and yeah, I hate tundra in spite of DoA pantheon.


Spoiler :
That's almost what happened in my game... I went honor/commerse/autocracy and worked my way through capitals. Both Shaka and America offered quite a challenge and the war took time. Meanwhile Korea and Maya built all wonders and spammed religion.

Korea conquered Maya, took all culture for itself and became a beast. Autocracy happiness got consumed and by the time my huge army reached their borders they won culture! :(

I'm going to replay. I want to win domination on this map!
 
Map providers optional quests.
1. Found protestantism and get Defender of the faith
2. Build NO world wonders!
3. You can't DOW. If someone attacks you, you can't make peace until after you conquered the attackers capital!

I think we need #4 Quest here... You can only win via Domination!

Turn 0-84

Spoiler :
I started this map with no prior info since I thought it might be more relaxed than the last game I just played. However not being able to start any wars is tough on me since I had alot of worker steals open. The one worker I saved from a barb camp I decided to give back to Ethiopia for a DOF. The next one I did get a settler/worker from a camp and I kept that one but wow I am having problems getting workers so far.

My B.O. was Scout, couple turns into Scout and changed to Shrine once Pott first was done, Monument, 2xArcher , 3xSettler, 2x Caravans. I have four cities up but they look ugly lol. All on Luxes and the first expo is working the Nat Wonder so no growth as of yet. The last city is on production only so no growth as well. I put Mogolia to war with Shaka and I have 3 DOFs with Ethiopia, Korea, and Mongolia. Im up to turn 84.

I did find Protestantism which is always my first choice anyway and Im hoping for Defender of the Faith. I picked +4fpt with Nat Wonders, Tithe and Swords into Plowshares so far.

This is gonna be hard, with not starting any Wars and no building of Wonders for me. My plan is to play nice with all Civs and get a Diplo Victory which is usually my plan with this Civ. I did manage a few CS quests but it is no fun moving archers all over the map when these very CS's have Comp Bows up! :)

Social Policies: I opened Honor since it is Raging Barbs which most would agree is tough on the AI. I seen Shaka lose 3 warriors and I know for a fact Ethiopia lost 1 settler. Im sure the rest of the world is having trouble with them but we love them since they keep giving us all that culture. After Honor I am now trying to fill Tradition asap!

Tech Path: I went Pott First, Calander, Archery, AH, Trapping, Mining, Wheel, Philo, beelining Currency now. I did pop free Sailing which was nice!


Turn 85-131

Spoiler :
What can I say? I do not enjoy all this peace. I would of rolled a few Civs by now and marching onto another doorstep. Instead Im stuck here with very little army that has no upgrades. I built NC around turn 120 or so. My expos have little production and basically I just am not very good at this game! I chose Asceticism since not really any good choices and Rex forced me to play this Defender garbage :) I guess we complained too much how easy Immortal is and Gustavus Rex put some handcuffs on us here. Im pretty confused with what to do from here and wish Mongolia would just roll me since he is about to denounce me any day now. I did put him to war with Korea and he rolled Shaka long ago.


I think I may have broke the rules lol! --- I was just thinking that the #3 rule states: "You can't start any wars" ... Im guessing that means bribe Civs into war as well. So now I most likely have to resign since I basically cheated lol. I have no desire to replay a map that I have prior information unless someone really wants me to finish to see what happens. Im pretty sure what will happen is a very late Diplo or SV eventually. LOL, it figures, I got rolled on the Deity #4 with this Civ and now here I am playing the Immortal game with the same Civ and Im cheating! :)

Gustavus Rex Quote: I'm going to replay. I want to win domination on this map!

Spoiler :
I guess if I was going to replay this map I would go Liberty and build a very early army and denounce my way into wars. Maybe take out a CS to really piss of the AI :) I think that would do it, I could very easily Bootcamp up on Genoa and take it over and get the AI to hate me and hope that Mongolia and Shaka war before they gang up on me. Oh wait damnit. "You can't start any wars" lol. How the heck am I gonna bootcamp up on a CS that I can't start a war with. Id have to hope they were allied with a Civ that declared on me! Ok this no starting any wars is pretty tough to follow. You really have to think and change the way you play compared to every other game I play. It is pretty hard to get out of the mindset of not starting a war since for years that is all I do!
 

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Map providers optional quests.
1. Found protestantism and get Defender of the faith
2. Build NO world wonders!
3. You can't start any war. If someone attacks you, you can't make peace until after you conquered the attackers capital!

Turn 0-84

Spoiler :
I started this map with no prior info since I thought it might be more relaxed than the last game I just played. However not being able to start any wars is tough on me since I had alot of worker steals open. The one worker I saved from a barb camp I decided to give back to Ethiopia for a DOF. The next one I did get a settler/worker from a camp and I kept that one but wow I am having problems getting workers so far.

My B.O. was Scout, couple turns into Scout and changed to Shrine once Pott first was done, Monument, 2xArcher , 3xSettler, 2x Caravans. I have four cities up but they look ugly lol. All on Luxes and the first expo is working the Nat Wonder so no growth as of yet. The last city is on production only so no growth as well. I put Mogolia to war with Shaka and I have 3 DOFs with Ethiopia, Korea, and Mongolia. Im up to turn 84.

I did find Protestantism which is always my first choice anyway and Im hoping for Defender of the Faith. I picked +4fpt with Nat Wonders, Tithe and Swords into Plowshares so far.

This is gonna be hard, with not starting any Wars and no building of Wonders for me. My plan is to play nice with all Civs and get a Diplo Victory which is usually my plan with this Civ. I did manage a few CS quests but it is no fun moving archers all over the map when these very CS's have Comp Bows up! :)

Social Policies: I opened Honor since it is Raging Barbs which most would agree is tough on the AI. I seen Shaka lose 3 warriors and I know for a fact Ethiopia lost 1 settler. Im sure the rest of the world is having trouble with them but we love them since they keep giving us all that culture. After Honor I am now trying to fill Tradition asap!

Tech Path: I went Pott First, Calander, Archery, AH, Trapping, Mining, Wheel, Philo, beelining Currency now. I did pop free Sailing which was nice!


Turn 85-131

Spoiler :
What can I say? I do not enjoy all this peace. I would of rolled a few Civs by now and marching onto another doorstep. Instead Im stuck here with very little army that has no upgrades. I built NC around turn 120 or so. My expos have little production and basically I just am not very good at this game! I chose Asceticism since not really any good choices and Rex forced me to play this Defender garbage :) I guess we complained too much how easy Immortal is and Gustavus Rex put some handcuffs on us here. Im pretty confused with what to do from here and wish Mongolia would just roll me since he is about to denounce me any day now. I did put him to war with Korea and he rolled Shaka long ago.


I think I may have broke the rules lol! --- I was just thinking that the #3 rule states: "You can't start any wars" ... Im guessing that means bribe Civs into war as well. So now I most likely have to resign since I basically cheated lol. I have no desire to replay a map that I have prior information unless someone really wants me to finish to see what happens. Im pretty sure what will happen is a very late Diplo or SV eventually. LOL, it figures, I got rolled on the Deity #4 with this Civ and now here I am playing the Immortal game with the same Civ and Im cheating! :)

Gustavus Rex Quote: I'm going to replay. I want to win domination on this map!

Spoiler :
I guess if I was going to replay this map I would go Liberty and build a very early army and denounce my way into wars. Maybe take out a CS to really piss of the AI :) I think that would do it, I could very easily Bootcamp up on Genoa and take it over and get the AI to hate me and hope that Mongolia and Shaka war before they gang up on me. Oh wait damnit. "You can't start any wars" lol. How the heck am I gonna bootcamp up on a CS that I can't start a war with. Id have to hope they were allied with a Civ that declared on me! Ok this no starting any wars is pretty tough to follow. You really have to think and change the way you play compared to every other game I play. It is pretty hard to get out of the mindset of not starting a war since for years that is all I do!

Fun that someone try to follow the optional rules!

I didn't had bribing others to war in mind when I came up with that rule so you did not break it. I'll edit that rule so you don't read it like that..

If you wanted to war you could have done som efforts in getting dowed? :)
 
Ok so you can make another Civ start a war hmmm well in that case I did not break any rules and I'll mess about with the ending of this game in the next few days. Your right I could of went a differnt way and made a Civ DOW me but I was reading this other post about how everyone is saying getting up four cities first is always better compared to a 2-3 city NC and I was like ok I'll try that on this game but I don't like the feel of this game at the moment but it is Immortal so you know usually I can get away with just about anything.

EDIT: The more I think about it the more I think it would be a challenge not to be able to start any wars whatsoever. It really is a tough thing to get used to but it is very viable. However since I started this game already and started 2 secret wars without thinking about it (Autopilot)(Bribes to Mongolia and Shaka to start wars) I'll just play it out anyway with the mindset that Secret Wars are ok just like some real life countries do!
 
Turns 132-292

Map providers optional quests.
1. Found protestantism and get Defender of the faith
2. Build NO world wonders!
3. You can't DOW. If someone attacks you, you can't make peace until after you conquered the attackers capital!

I think we need #4 Quest here... You can only win via Domination!


Spoiler :
I decided to finish this game out even though I bribed wars through the whole game. I think next time I see a rule that states you can't start a war I will play much different. Something like No Bribes, No Dows, No Defensive Pact, No Team up with me and kill Shaka :). I realize that isn't what was intended but it sounds a little more difficult this way.

Anyway, I played a basic Turtle game and since I could not build 1 world wonder my culture was pretty bad except when I won WF. First game I didn't try for the PT. Long story short I gifted almost all my GP's to the CS's except for the GS's and 1 GA that I got a Golden Age at the very end. The Mongols took out 2 CS's early but no matter I controlled all 14 of the others pretty early on and put all spies in for Diplomats but couldn't get any of my Friends to vote for me. I was waiting to make my Church the World Religion but I waited too long and missed out on those 2 votes lol. So 41 out of 39 needed for the Diplo Win.

I think the map was unfair to Alex but once again this is Immortal and you can do whatever you want to do once you know the basics of this game. I only got 3 deep into Order and I went Full Trad, Full Ratio, Opened Honor and Opened Patronage.

I see why the Defender of the Faith was a Rule since it unlocked the achievement so that was nice to get. Also, just as in real life only two cities were left following the path of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ since any GP's were gifted to CS's. Otherwise a very simple, stress free game. Thanks Gus! One of these days why don't you post up one or more of your games and some pics for us to look at ?!
 

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