The Infamous Warrior Rush:

[jmas]

Thank you all who have posted, for the tips. It sounds like only Stoney the I is recommending the barracks (and that with the Inca specifically). No one recommended building a worker and I would certainly be happy to just steal one or more (at least I was able to steal one against Alex, at the cost of a warrior). I made an error in my post; it was actually chariots I was trying to rush Alex with, since he was far away, horse turned out to be right next to my capital, and chariots are stronger than warriors.

I will try the warrior rush again, however first I will mop up the other AI's (Julius Caesar's) remaining cities for my first Noble win--thank you swordsmen (and JC's inexplicable failure to build Praetorians prior to my pillaging his iron )!

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Warrior rushes are usually ideal for a rival that is too close for comfort. In other words, when there will be obvious problems with your REX and you're not sure you will have access to copper.

Your choice to chariot rush a further neighbor was a good choice .

 

[PhroX]

I don't think I've ever warrior rushed (except Quechas, but they don't count). I only found out about it after I'd started playing Monarch.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

IF i warrior use these days I use the Inca's.
Barracks --> chainbuild UU with archery promotion and 1 medic

How is it that you are getting 2 promotion quechuas with just a barracks? Huayana Capac isn't AGG and Barracks only gives 3 XP. Promotion 1 is available at 2XP, Promotion 2 is available at 5XP. So I'm not sure how your doing Combat I / Cover.

 

[PhroX]

How is it that you are getting 2 promotion quechuas with just a barracks? Huayana Capac isn't AGG and Barracks only gives 3 XP. Promotion 1 is available at 2XP, Promotion 2 is available at 5XP. So I'm not sure how your doing Combat I / Cover.

Quechas get free Combat 1.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Quechas get free Combat 1.

Are you serious? They didn't put that on the online Civilopedia! That's OP I know who I'm starting my next game as.

EDIT: This is seriously crazy for levels Prince and below. I mean, you can just build a barracks and keep pumping out quechuas. Below monarch level, you could have like 12 archer hunters by the time they even research archery! I'm gonna try a Pangaea Quechua conquest victory!

 

[phungus420]

Does this strategy work with RevolutionDCM or a RevDCM based mod when you start as a minor tribe? I'd think with the better AI, and the fact that with start as minors set the AI considers itself at war would make it respond better to an early rush from warriors.

 

[PhroX]

Are you serious? They didn't put that on the online Civilopedia! That's OP I know who I'm starting my next game as.

EDIT: This is seriously crazy for levels Prince and below. I mean, you can just build a barracks and keep pumping out quechuas. Below monarch level, you could have like 12 archer hunters by the time they even research archery! I'm gonna try a Pangaea Quechua conquest victory!

Prince and below? Hell, it works at any difficulty - well, haven't tried Deity, but it works on Immortal (my only win there). Quecha rush vs archers is probably better than warrior rush vs warriors.

If used properly, they make Praetorians look balanced.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Prince and below? Hell, it works at any difficulty - well, haven't tried Deity, but it works on Immortal (my only win there). Quecha rush vs archers is probably better than warrior rush vs warriors.

If used properly, they make Praetorians look balanced.

The reason I talk about Prince and below (besides the fact that I play on that level ) is that you have such a great head start on archer-killers while the AI still has to tech archery! AFAI can tell, the AI tends to research archery before most other techs (again prince and below). So it'll be even longer before you see axeman.

The way I see it, the Quechua with combat I and cover gives you:
Base strength 2 + 100%(innate) +10%(C I) +25% (cover) = 2 + 2.7 = 4.7

Usual ancient era (non-protective) AI archery unit:
Base strength 3 + 50%(innate city) + 20%(CG I) = 3 + 2.1 = 5.1

4.7 vs. 5.1 is not bad. Considering that 1 battle will melt down the archer's health.

Comparing this to waiting for axemen:
It's 70 for axeman, 30 for Quechua. That's 2.33 Quechuas per axeman and this starts from 4000BC (well, let's be fair and say 3600BC to allow for the construction of the barracks). In other words, if you're playing on any sort of multiple landmass map, you can pretty much eliminate any potential rival on your continent before researching bronzeworking. REX, beeline CoL for courthouses and a religion, and off I go.

"There will be blood tonight!"

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Prince and below are the only difficulties you can do it with non-quechas cost effectively.

 

[Stoney the I]

"There will be blood tonight!"

Enjoy your new toys!

 

[nbcman]

Are you serious? They didn't put that on the online Civilopedia!

I wouldn't rely on the information in that online civilopedia. There are multiple mistakes. Rely on the ingame civilopedia or dj_anion's excellent reference guide.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I wouldn't rely on the information in that online civilopedia. There are multiple mistakes. Rely on the ingame civilopedia or dj_anion's excellent reference guide.

Thanks 30 Rock

 

[Izanaki]

I always Warrior rush if an enemy is relatively close to my spawn. Usually works on Monarch or even Emperor. Just start building warriors before even the first Worker or Settler or Work Boat. Having two capitals is worth falling a little behind initially

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I always Warrior rush if an enemy is relatively close to my spawn. Usually works on Monarch or even Emperor. Just start building warriors before even the first Worker or Settler or Work Boat. Having two capitals is worth falling a little behind initially

Yeah right.

To beat 2 archers in a city, you need over 10 warriors to win consistently. If a 3rd is whipped, you might even strike en-route just to get enough warriors to take a single city. It's a little better if you're aggressive, but not much.

Now, if you are on marathon, you're at least benefiting from what amounts to the effect of a military academy (since you don't have other multipliers yet). Even there, a cost effective non-quecha warrior rush is highly implausible. Your tech falls behind just to get another city? You could just...build a settler? Possibly use axes or chariots for a much better kills: investment?

We haven't even gotten into the barbs yet, or how the AI might actually get FOUR archers on emperor on a typical speed.

Building 12-15 warriors doesn't put you a "little" behind. It puts you *very* behind. Also, just the odds of you having an AI that's close enough are low. On prince-, you can get to them even if far because you don't need a ton of warriors...but building double digit warriors is a huge outlay, and it STILL doesn't guarantee success...especially on emperor+. Just opening so it's possible will slow you down if you opt out, too.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Yeah, I'm not sure what he's talking about. When I move up to Monarch, I will be abandoning any non-Quechua warrior rushing.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yeah, I'm not sure what he's talking about. When I move up to Monarch, I will be abandoning any non-Quechua warrior rushing.

I wish it worked kind of though . The reason I posted that is that I've tried doing it...quite a few times!

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

LoL. It's probably the very reason Firaxis gave the AI archers/Archery on starts with difficulty Monarch+. After all, how much harder could the game possibly get if you could rush a rival out of the picture right off the bat, grab a 2nd capital, and open up a lot of easy peaceful REX land?

EDIT: An interesting experiment: edit out archers/archery for AI on monarch (start with 1 warrior/scout) and see how much easier the game gets

 

[TheMeInTeam]

LoL. It's probably the very reason Firaxis gave the AI archers/Archery on starts with difficulty Monarch+. After all, how much harder could the game possibly get if you could rush a rival out of the picture right off the bat, grab a 2nd capital, and open up a lot of easy peaceful REX land?

EDIT: An interesting experiment: edit out archers/archery for AI on monarch (start with 1 warrior/scout) and see how much easier the game gets

It happened in some of the early PYL games. Some players on emperor/immortal difficulty wiped out sucker AIs almost instantly.

 

[pfo]

Once with Huayna, and it worked well (that is his UU after all). Another time, I stumbled upon India's empty capital within 6 turns, I DOWed and smashed it (not really a warrior rush, more like a lucky find).

Other times, it's worked to steal a worker or two, or choke so I can take them later, but generally I avoid it.