The Kingdom of Hatti: Bring Back the Hittites

[Zaarin]

> Hittites were renowned for their metallurgy and their abilities should reflect that (science from mines, start with vision of iron, coal, aluminum & uranium, etc)

Iron sure, but the others seem a bit extreme. Also you forgot nitre.

 

[Siptah]

Some open air shrine like in Yazilikaia (more of a wonder actually) could work as UB as well.

@The Kingmaker so no substantial reason to include her over some other choices. I thought maybe you knew a bit more than these old phrases. Of course it‘s better than Gorgo - but that shouldn‘t be the standard.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Iron sure, but the others seem a bit extreme. Also you forgot nitre.

All units which require Iron unlock sooner? (Swordsmen at Bronze Working and Knights at Horseback Riding. nb I just realized there are only two. what. on. earth. o__O)

and everyone forgets about Nitre.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Some open air shrine like in Yazilikaia (more of a wonder actually) could work as UB as well.

@The Kingmaker so no substantial reason to include her over some other choices. I thought maybe you knew a bit more than these old phrases. Of course it‘s better than Gorgo - but that shouldn‘t be the standard.

Come now. These are the Hittites we're talking about. There are no big household names to fall back on.

Sure, Suppiluliuma and Mursilis were great conquerors, but there's not all that much to differentiate them from any other near eastern warlord of the period.

Pudu-Hepa at least is something other than the tired conqueror trope.

I'm not sure what additional information you're looking for when it comes to Hittite rulers.

 

[Havendish]

The language is well attested and they have decent records, but Elam would probably be the easier of the two to find leaders and cities for.

Elam is quite fascinating. Matriarchal, I believe, in that their main deity was a goddess.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I definitely support Hatti's return and I've got so much to say and so little time.

> Suppiluliuma is my prefered leader choice, but I quite like OP's Queen idea
> Hittites were renowned for their metallurgy and their abilities should reflect that (science from mines, start with vision of iron, coal, aluminum & uranium, etc)
> The Hittites also signed the first ever peace treaty, so a diplomatic ability isn't out of the question
> Hittites were foremost expansionists. A Chariot UU is excellent, since three-man-chariots is what they were famous for. The name "three man chariot" itself is meh, though. Meshedi were the bodyguards of the King, so maybe use that as a name instead.
> A UA which gives them bonuses towards City State Conquest is a pretty true-to-history ability for them. There are other options, if the combat system is further deepened to include morale or war score.

Also, I'm working on my own Civ7 vision (which I plan on presenting when I find time/once its done. July at it's earliest). This is my current prototype of what a Hittite city banner could look like:

Spoiler :

Dark Orange and Yellow would suit them nicely since their most famous symbol is a sun disk and orange is generally a difficult colour to assign (other than Netherlands and maybe India). An alternative could be a shade of pink to symbolize the dawn [of a new era in which the Hittites will crush you with their chariot spam]

I agree with the diplomacy ability. They did indeed create the first known formal written peace treaty.

Pudu-hepa could have an ability involving the new alliance mechanism. She was adept at brokering important marriage alliances involving her children and arranged for their family to be allied with Egypt, Babylon and Amurru (the Amorite kingdom) simultaneously.

 

[Zaarin]

Elam is quite fascinating. Matriarchal, I believe, in that their main deity was a goddess.

I wouldn't say that makes them matriarchal--Ishtar was a major deity in the Babylonian pantheon, too, and the Babylonians were far from matriarchal--to say nothing of the fact that Athena was the patron god of one of the most chauvinistic societies in history. But the Elamites are quite interesting, being a major power in the region, speaking a language unrelated to any other known language, and even briefly conquering Babylon.

 

[Havendish]

Come now. These are the Hittites we're talking about. There are no big household names to fall back on.

Sure, Suppiluliuma and Mursilis were great conquerors, but there's not all that much to differentiate them from any other near eastern warlord of the period.

Pudu-Hepa at least is something other than the tired conqueror trope.

I'm not sure what additional information you're looking for when it comes to Hittite rulers.

Muwatalli II gets my vote, but sure, Pudu would be great too. As long as the Hatti are in and well made (reflecting their culture and achievements), I'm a happy camper.

 

[The Kingmaker]

Muwatalli II gets my vote, but sure, Pudu would be great too. As long as the Hatti are in and well made (reflecting their culture and achievements), I'm a happy camper.

Hear, hear!

 

[fredrikslicer]

Rulers:
Paduhepa is certainly a valid choice but...
Suppiluliuma is the man who took a broken empire everyone had written off as vitually dead and made it one of the great powers in the near east and herculean achivement
Mursili II Suffered plauge for nearly his entire reign which he belived was a direct punishment from the god for the crimes of his father, loosing 3 of his brothers and wife as well as being struck mute likely due to grief and still with a depleted army and ravaged country he preserved his fathers legacy and pushed the empire even futher west.
Paduhepa was a successful diplomat and powerful tawana but pales by comparison and Muwatali II is only noteworthy because he had contact with Ramases and Troy

Still I would want Paduhepa because she is a very good representation of the Tawana which was an unusual institution in the region
And I would like either Suppiluliuma or Mursili II

In general I think most civs need at least 2 leaders too best represent their various facets

UU: Heavy Chariot (is obvious)
UB: Bit Hilani replaces Monument (Not sure about the bonuses but it was emulated for a long time afterwards)
UA: Land of a thousand gods (Iron was never more than ceremonial or used by the ocassional officer)
UAL:
1. Tawanan for Pudu-Hepa
2. Great sun of Hattit for Suppiluliuma
3. Servant of the Storm god for Mursili II

 

[Lord Lakely]

I agree with the diplomacy ability. They did indeed create the first known formal written peace treaty.

Pudu-hepa could have an ability involving the new alliance mechanism. She was adept at brokering important marriage alliances involving her children and arranged for their family to be allied with Egypt, Babylon and Amurru (the Amorite kingdom) simultaneously.

For my own vision I hold different parametres into account, but you've definitely sold me on PuduHepa for Civ 6. A mechanic where she can have multiple alliances of the same type could work, I think. (simple, unique, powerful). Let's harangue the devs forevermore until she's included in the next Xpac.

 

[Siptah]

Rulers:
Paduhepa is certainly a valid choice but...
Suppiluliuma is the man who took a broken empire everyone had written off as vitually dead and made it one of the great powers in the near east and herculean achivement
Mursili II Suffered plauge for nearly his entire reign which he belived was a direct punishment from the god for the crimes of his father, loosing 3 of his brothers and wife as well as being struck mute likely due to grief and still with a depleted army and ravaged country he preserved his fathers legacy and pushed the empire even futher west.
Paduhepa was a successful diplomat and powerful tawana but pales by comparison and Muwatali II is only noteworthy because he had contact with Ramases and Troy

Still I would want Paduhepa because she is a very good representation of the Tawana which was an unusual institution in the region
And I would like either Suppiluliuma or Mursili II

In general I think most civs need at least 2 leaders too best represent their various facets

UU: Heavy Chariot (is obvious)
UB: Bit Hilani replaces Monument (Not sure about the bonuses but it was emulated for a long time afterwards)
UA: Land of a thousand gods (Iron was never more than ceremonial or used by the ocassional officer)
UAL:
1. Tawanan for Pudu-Hepa
2. Great sun of Hattit for Suppiluliuma
3. Servant of the Storm god for Mursili II

Tawanna is indeed a special position, but so is Tabarna. I don't know any parallels in the Near East for that. I'm thinking how this could be turned into an ability for the civ, but haven't come up with something interesting gameplay-wise yet.

@The Kingmaker I know that in the end, Puduhepa has good chances to get into the game if they want to do the Hittites. I just can't see a reason that puts her above the others besides having contact to well known people. She doesn't seem to have been an extraordinary Tawanna, but there were some extraordinary Tabarna. It's not the same situation as with Nubia, where the Kings are often outshined by the Kandake in our reception, here it is quite the opposite.

 

[fredrikslicer]

Tawanna is indeed a special position, but so is Tabarna. I don't know any parallels in the Near East for that. I'm thinking how this could be turned into an ability for the civ, but haven't come up with something interesting gameplay-wise yet.

Well the Tabarna would very likely have their own chariots so thats an option

Replacements for a great general

Replacing a governor with a unique one for hittites

 

[Siptah]

Well the Tabarna would very likely have their own chariots so thats an option

Replacements for a great general

Replacing a governor with a unique one for hittites

Unique governors or governor abilities would certainly be an interesting feature.

My best idea so far was gaining/losing loyalty through something comparable to historic moments.

 

[The Kingmaker]

@The Kingmaker I know that in the end, Puduhepa has good chances to get into the game if they want to do the Hittites. I just can't see a reason that puts her above the others besides having contact to well known people. She doesn't seem to have been an extraordinary Tawanna, but there were some extraordinary Tabarna. It's not the same situation as with Nubia, where the Kings are often outshined by the Kandake in our reception, here it is quite the opposite.

Except that she was quite extraordinary. Her husband was sick a lot and she essentially ran the kingdom for him. After he died, her son was young and she appeared to continue to run everything in his name. By far the most powerful and prestigious queen of the Hittites.

She wrote letters to Ramses the Great of all people and spoke on equal terms while other nations were bowing and scraping.

She once chided him for letting his pride cloud his judgment when he was overly contemptuous of the King of Babylon. No one talked to Ramses like that, let alone got away with it.

She also had correspondence with Nefertari, but if memory serves, Nefertari never wrote to Hattusili like Puduhepa wrote to Ramses.

 

[Siptah]

Except that she was quite extraordinary. Her husband was sick a lot and she essentially ran the kingdom for him. After he died, her son was young and she appeared to continue to run everything in his name. By far the most powerful and prestigious queen of the Hittites.

She wrote letters to Ramses the Great of all people and spoke on equal terms while other nations were bowing and scraping.

She once chided him for letting his pride cloud his judgment when he was overly contemptuous of the King of Babylon. No one talked to Ramses like that, let alone got away with it.

She also had correspondence with Nefertari, but if memory serves, Nefertari never wrote to Hattusili like Puduhepa wrote to Ramses.

Meh... I guess we will never agree on that, so there‘s no point in discussing (or repeating questionable phrases that scream in a strange way fragmentary knowledge or intentional biases).

 

[The Kingmaker]

(or repeating questionable phrases that scream in a strange way fragmentary knowledge or intentional biases).

What a strange thing to say on an internet forum about video games.

 

[Softly]

The Hittites are know for being scientifically advanced for their era, especially in the field of metallurgy. I think the perfect civ ability would be:

Kings of the Iron Age: City Center's receive +1 science for adjacent mines over strategic resources. Building mines over any resource does not consume a builder charge. Automatically reveals iron at the start of the game, and all other strategic resources are revealed earlier in the technology tree (niter at Bronze Working, coal at Gunpowder, Oil at Steam Power and Uranium + Aluminum at Combustion.

 

[dunkleosteus]

The Hittites haven't been seen since Civ3

They've been a city state since Civ 6 was released

 

[The Kingmaker]

They've been a city state since Civ 6 was released

Yes, but that's not a playable civ. Just a single city name and some scant civiliopedia text.

Brings up some thoughts I've had about them improving the implementation of city-states.