The most useless great wonders?

[-proletarian-]

This has probably been done before, but I've never seen a similar thread, so......

Every wonder is useful in some way, even if it is only for the cultural benefits. However, there are the wonders that I never even bother trying to build.

The Great Library
The Great Wall
Magellan's Voyage
Sun Tzu's Art Of War

Now I WILL build them if they are easily available and there is nothing better to build, but I'll generally let the AI waste production on them while I snap up the best ones.

 

[Frog Propaganda]

Wow, I consider Sun Tzu's wonder one of the most potent in the game if used right. If you are on a large landmass and a tad on the violent side, the Art of War is damn near essential. As for useless, Longevity pretty much takes the cake. Way way too far in the game, way too expensive, etc. etc. to be worth the bother. Two people every time the city grows when all your cities are maxed out by then anyway? Gee, thanks.

Some other top runners for the Useless of 2002:

United Nations: Diplomatic victory is weak.
Great Wall: Barbs are pointless enough.
Manhattan Project: I'll let someone else build it. I love nukes as much as everyone else, but it really makes more sense to have this as a small wonder. As is, the Japanese can do the work for me.

Ahhhh....joy.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I still can't understand why people value Sun Tzu's so lowly. It is one of the best wonders. Sure, it loses value on island maps. But on pangea maps it is one of the best wonders in the game. You get a free barracks in every city. This helps out ALOT with newly conquered city. Thus, right after you've quelled the resistance you can move on to the next city, fully healed. Otherwise, you have to sit around for a few more turns waiting to heal which can really slow your war effort down.

I agree with you on Great Wall. Someone did a poll on wothless wonders a few weeks ago and Great Wall had the most votes by far. Great Library depends on the difficulty level you are playing. Shakesphere's is worthless except for it's culture.

 

[Frog Propaganda]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
Shakesphere's is worthless except for it's culture.

Ooooh, I forgot about that one. Yeah, that goes inbetween the Wall and the Manhattan Project for 'really no need to build.' The culture would make it tempting if it was a little less expensive. Otherwise, meh.

 

[God]

3 wonders I never bother to build:
Shakespeare's
Great Wall
Manhatten Project

I haven't ever built Unniversal Suffrage. I don't ever really switch to democracy during the Industrial Ages. Its near useless to me.

 

[-proletarian-]

Shakespears's useless?!?!?!?





I that wonder! I'll build it in the city that I know is going to be my most productive city for the remainder of the game. Being able to convert 8 unhappy citizens into content workers really frees you up to max out production there without having to worry about wasting potential workers by having to assign them into entertainers. (If that made sense, sorry )



On another note, I had forgotten about manhatten, UN, and longevity. Longevity should come around during the industrial age (halfway through ideally). manhattan should be a small wonder that is needed to build nukes. And yes, diplomatic win IS lame.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I that wonder! I'll build it in the city that I know is going to be my most productive city for the remainder of the game. Being able to convert 8 unhappy citizens into content workers really frees you up to max out production there without having to worry about wasting potential workers by having to assign them into entertainers. (If that made sense, sorry )

When you get a bunch of luxuries and a marketplace in the city, you don't quite need that many content people. The few unhappy people you do have can be made content with a temple and cathedral which is a heck of alot cheaper than building the wonder.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Longevity would be handy after a nuclear winter though I've never had the chance to build it because the games over before the modern age.

The great library and the pyramids are the best, great wall and colossus are the worst - lighthouse is if its a pangaea map

 

[-proletarian-]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy


When you get a bunch of luxuries and a marketplace in the city, you don't quite need that many content people. The few unhappy people you do have can be made content with a temple and cathedral which is a heck of alot cheaper than building the wonder.

Well sure, but only up to a point. When your cities are growing into size 20+, cathedrals, colosseums and temples just don't cut it anymore. Shakespeare's takes care of all those newly unhappy citizens when growth accelerates after the building of a hospital.

 

[Frodo Bolson]

The Wonders may be useless or not depending in the goals and strategy the player is trying to achieve. If you want to go to war with everybody, then the art of war is advised, but if you want to just expand a big empire, stop and search the culture or spaceship victory, then it is not very useful except for the little extra culture points.

 

[Fr8monkey]

I usually always build the Great Library, if not for the benifits of free advances; but to keep the technological edge and keep others from taking my advances!

 

[Bamspeedy]

Well sure, but only up to a point. When your cities are growing into size 20+, cathedrals, colosseums and temples just don't cut it anymore. Shakespeare's takes care of all those newly unhappy citizens when growth accelerates after the building of a hospital.

It's only the first 20 you need to worry about keeping happy or content, heck a few can even be unhappy. Those first 20 you only need enough happiness factors to allow you to work every tile. So if there is some overlap with another city, you would need even less happiness. It doesn't matter if the person is happy, content, or unhappy, as long as they work a tile and you have more happy than unhappy people. After you have more people than tiles that can be worked you get specialists, which can be entertainers if needed. Specialists are pretty worthless so it doesn't matter if they are entertainers instead of a taxman. I have a city with a size of over 5,000 population points and all I have in the city is a marketplace. The city has 3,000 entertainers and 2,000 scientists or taxmen.

If you have only 4 or 5 luxuries and no other happiness wonders than your point is very well taken. Having a WLTK day in that city is one of the few arguments for building Shakesphere's. But to build it, you usually build it in a city that has such a small level of corruption to begin with that WLTK day has no effect, or very minimal. The only other argument for Shakesphere's (other than culture) is you could do a massive draft in that city. I never draft anyways. If I need military units, I want trained professionals, not some hillbilly with a shotgun.

 

[erix]

The Great Library; If you can't keep up at science with other civs, this wonder is a must.

The Great Wall; Really useless. (But maybe good for the games with more barbarians).

Magellan's Voyage; Extra moving capability gives you a very big advantage at sea wars.

Sun Tzu's Art Of War; If you have much cities in one continent it is very nice to have. It also puts barracks to the cities you capture on the same continent.

I think the usefullness of a wonder depends on the strategy.

 

[Sanaz]

The UN can be important if other civs hate you, and you need to control the vote. The Great Wall has saved my small border cities when I'm still sending troops up to defend, but can rush a wall - this is more poor planning, but I still like the bonus and at least it's cheap. And, I like the 7 Great Wonders of the Ancient Age for poetic reasons, useful or not.

Has anyone ever checked to see if Universal Suffrage even works? I've personally never found a correlation between it and lack of war weariness, but there are so many factors involved it's hard to tell.

The Manhatten Project is the only wonder with absolutely NO value (there's easier ways to get more culture). Built or not, there's no advantage either way. I might build it for kicks, but I would never waste a shield on it if the game is close.

 

[bobgote]

I like the colossus. It can be really good, if planned. Also lasts til electricity (or something along those lines)

Great Wall - next to useless.

Also - how do you propose longevity in the industrial age? We haven't got longevity in 2002!

Most of the wonders are very handy given the right circumstances.

 

[-proletarian-]

Originally posted by bobgote
Also - how do you propose longevity in the industrial age? We haven't got longevity in 2002!

You don't think that an average life expectancy of 80, when people, before current times, lived on average to an age of, say, 40, constitutes longevity?

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Those I don't have and can't capture

 

[bobgote]

Longevity in the sense of genetic engineering??? That's why it comes with the advance of genetics you clod!

 

[Lab Monkey]

The great lighthouse is a bit duff unless you're on an archipelago. I've never built the great wall (unless I'm on warlord and just building everything).
I never build the Manhatten project (I've altered it to make your people unhappy, as is should).
Some wonders really arn't that good on lower levels. The great library, the hanging gardens especially get more useful on the higher levels when you need those bonuses.

 

[Ordep]

The Great Library, besides the tech advantage, is a huge culture advantage (built in ancient era and 6 culture points. This is huge on any dificulty.)

The Manhattin Project is usefull if you have a tech/industrial lead and want to have nukes before anyone else.

The Colossus is great if it is built in a super tech city and doesn't expire 'til flight.

Art of War can be very usefull, as mentioned above.

The Great Wall is pretty much pointless, as is Longevity. Cure for Cancer helps a little, but usually by the point in the game that I can build it I don't have happiness concerns. SETI doesn't help much either because by the time you build it the tech race is almost over, though I suppose it has some use.