The most useless great wonders?

I thought it was Ray Charles who discovered America. ;)

Elvis is still alive, too.
 
Portugal isn't in it for the same reason the Spanish who had the other half of the world at that time.... including the Holy Roman Empire.The Dutch also had a large part of the world at one time due to their navy and merchants. (New York, Australia was New Holland, South Africa, Indonesia, etc. Just like Portugal and Brazil , Mozambique etc...
The Spanish are more important though because most of the American countries are of Spanish origin; only one from Portugal.

It would be a nice game though if there was an option to play the great explorers and the colonies they founded. There was a game based on colonialism but I never cared for it.
 
Methinks this thread has gotten a little off-topic.



:lol:
 
I agree. Sorry about that....
What other wonders, big or small did any of these civs produce?
Which ones could have been included?

I think Firaxis could have done us a favour by allowing canal building wonder... Like Suez or Panama Canal ...certainly would be better distance saver than the Lighthouse or Magellan's Voyage. One square savings in a progressing world is nonsensical. Train transport should not be infinitly faster than modern ship travel... Most trains are only 10 times or so as fast for hauling freight. Try moving troops across the US as fast as email.
 
Here is my opinion about The Great Wonders: (1to10)

-Colossus - 5 : Good, but not very worth it unless if you are planning to combine it with others, or if you are playing with early civs (romans, zulus, persians,...) and get an GL (remember that you can have only what at any time so, if you have hurry to use it and you think you can have others...). AI doesn't use it very well, so...

-Great Wall - 3/7 : Depends low CPs and after-metallurgy obsolence makes it bad (3), unless you want to enter in >2 wars till metallurgy times, what makes it very usefull (8). With Greeks, I think it is a waste, because with them you should aim for peacefull maps, because AI won't have will to attack you hoplites and you don't want to attack because you don't have any advantage at the beggining (let scientific abilities do their effects)

-Oracle - 6 : Depends on difficulty levels. In chieftain its a waste, but on deity, it really helps to keep your citizens happy... and 4 CPs help.

-Hanging Gardens - 7 : Do them in the biggest city for that 3 pop bonus. It's my prefered way to keep people happy, because they don't even have to build a temple... Very usefull on higher difficulty levels (same reason...). 4 CPs are good.

-Lighthouse - 3(7) : Don't do it!!! AI doesn't gain much from it (AI galleys can travel freely...) It becomes obsolete too soon! And 2 CPs are... lousy. Only if the map has plenty of water and your island is a little one!

-Great Library - 8/9 : Do it. 6 CPs, in ancient times: WOW. Also, you don't have AI to have it: you want to sell your tecs or AI not to have them... In higher difficulty levels, its a must have: it gives you tecs!!!

-Pyramids - 10 : 4 CPs are good. AI don't have it is very good, your pop growing like pigs for you to kill rushing in despot and to build massive settlers and workers is the best!!! (I don't like to kill my citizens, but in CIV3 you must use this option; remember they do not exis: they are just numbers in a silicio circuit...)

-Copernicus' Observatory - 5 : Do it in the same city of Colossus. This is why you have the Colossus for!!! 4 CPs, good, good.

-Magellan's Expedition - 6(10) : Do it in Water maps. If you don't have any water, leave it (3 CPs may be worthy, depending on your victory type and your GL production (wars after wars...).
I'm Magalhães (=Magellan in English), so I like it very very much :)

- Newton's University - 5 : Very, very powerfull, if combined with the Colossus and the Copernicu's observatory. If not, well it's 6 (!!!) CPs, so it worths it, huh.

-Shakespeare's Theater - 7 : Build it on that big big city that is always turning against you... or in the border, for kulturkampf (8!!!!!!!! CPs, can you believe it!)

-Sun Tzu's Art of War - 6/9 : Very, very good. You don't let them to have it, and you have always veteran units in your home continent. 2 CPs - You didn't do it for culture... :D

-Smith's Trading Company - 6 : It depends, but generally it is worth it, because you save money here to have it for other stuff, much more usefull (science, armies,...). And with PTW,it will also pay Stock Exchange improvement...
My fathers wonder... (I study economics)

-J.S. Bach's Cathedral - 7 : Less unhappy citizens, less war weariness, 6 CPs,... what more did you want! To have worldwide effects? That would be robbery!

-Leonardo's Workshop - 2/5 : Sorry CIV2 lovers, but this... in CIV3... is garbage, or almost. Do it only if your army needs to be upgraded and it is HUGE. Anyone ever saw AI using this bonus? I think they do it for sport...

-Sistine Chapel - 6 : Good, if you have many cathedrals... And 6 CPs, mmmm mnham mnham...

-Theory of Evolution - 6/8 - It depends on how backward are you, but it is always good... Why only 3 CPs?!?

-Hoover Dam - 9 : Do you want to boost production. Do it! Factories will produce much more... And you didn't build it because of the CPs...

-Universal Suffrage - 2/8 - Are you Democratic? (the 2 is because of the 4 CPs, because otherwise would be less, the 8 is because war weariness is a big problem to democracies and republics)

-Manhattan Project - 0 : Don't do it!!!! Let them do it because you will benefict also from the effects... and it delays nuclear terror equilibrium!

-United Nations - 0/10 : Just for diplomatic victories... 4 CPs Vs 1000 shields... doesn't worth it!

-Cure for Cancer - 7 : It is very good to have more one happy citizen in our cities...

-Longevity - 8 : Don't let AI have it... and it is veryyyyyy good to have x2 pop growth rate for so many reasons that I won't start counting them...

-SETI Program - 5 : Good to replace Colossus. But so late in the game it looses much of it utility... 3 CPs don't help to justify, unless we are getting close to a cultural victory...

So, this is my opinions at the present moment. I'll be happy for coments and corrections, or even for more especific wonder-strategies, or to best civs to each one, or what so ever...

Be my guests :)
 
Great Library. . . I shoot for it every game, usually starting by building the pyramids, racing to get literacy, and then switching over as soon as possible.

Which brings me to my real point: What ever happened to the pyramids? In my eyes, they were the must have ancient wonder on CIVII. Now I don't even bother. . .

Never bother with Great Wall or Manhatten either. . .

My top two are in order:
1. Sistine (absolutely essential)
2. Hoover Dam . . . love it!

But then again, as others have said, it all depends on the map and your civ. I usually play random civs so I get to know them all. . .
 
And the Lighthouse can be very useful, you can be the first civ to reach the other continent and then trade techs,maps and communications between the civs on the 2 or 3 continents. Also it makes you the great naval power (with faster ships).
 
The UN is crap in my opinion, but if you are a warmonger, you have to build it to stop someone else winning diplomatically.

My best are sistine chapel, pyramids and then the science ones (Copernicus, SETI)
 
I won with diplo victory in GOTM8 as a warmonger!
killed france and russia everyone mad at me!but i bribed them and i won!
 
:lol: There was a thread about diplomatic victory being too soft somewhere... Can't remember it but take a look if you want. It's stupid because if you bribe countries the turn before, you win anyway. It's crazy. And just imagine if you were totally dominating, and then lost when some git builds the UN. I usually wouldn't disable a means of victory, but with diplo i might make the exception.
 
Originally posted by bobgote
:lol: There was a thread about diplomatic victory being too soft somewhere... Can't remember it but take a look if you want. It's stupid because if you bribe countries the turn before, you win anyway. It's crazy. And just imagine if you were totally dominating, and then lost when some git builds the UN. I usually wouldn't disable a means of victory, but with diplo i might make the exception.
Click to expand...



I've found that both the Dipolomatic and Cultural Victory are quite lacking as far as the satisfaction level of winning goes. You don't really feel as though you have accomplished anything, and with cultural victory, it seems as though the game just ends! Lame, lame, lame. . . Personally, I turn them both off, and have never won a domination victory. I still prefer the good ole fashioned conquest or space race victory depending on which Civ I get.
 
The U.N. should enable you to threaten other Civs to stop fighting as in SMAC or enable the civs to act in consort to stop war-mongering nations ie. the human, with a "peace-keeping" mission. I can't believe how the AI allows each civ to be gobbled up piecemeal rather than ganging up on rogue nations intent on domination.:egypt:
The AI should be able to evaluate "good behaviour" over the course of the game for diplomatic victories.
I can't understand how civs move from polite to annoyed to furious Do they expect free techs and maps? Some of them are polit as they move into your territory and suddenly declare war. Does the AI evaluate all human actions as hostile?:egypt:
 
I used to like cultural victories because I was a builder... Every improvement, every wonder because I wanted to be civilized and cultured. Then I found out that to get high scores you were penalized for having all those cultural institutions. You can not get a high cultural score (TCV: 100,000) and a high world ranking (WR: 4,000-5,000). By not building culture such as libraries temples etc. you might get a low TCV but your world rank can easily (but tediously) get over 10,000.
This means forget about any cultural great wonder but bribe your people the Roman way ..... bread and circuses (circi?)... buy luxuries and breed & feed.:lol: :egypt:
 
Yeh, AI needs a bit of tweaking in a lot of areas. I think everyone will agree on that one, even the people (like me) who think that civ3 is a great game.
 
Maybe if they got to work on Civ IV now they'd have a good AI programmed for the game's potential release in the next 3 years or so.



;)
 
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