the naval units aren't very good or realistic imho..

[explodin dog]

hello, i just wanted to do this quick little 'poll' about what you think the naval units should have as stats, they don't seem very realistic.. i mean a carrier SHOULD be able to cross the atlantic in three turns at the most..

this will all be incorporated into my new realistic mod, i may add other things too.
the units in question are:

ground units:

cruise missiles: how much bombardment? way too low, still... increased range perhaps?

naval units:

carrier: the ultimate (almost) debate; only four aircraft..? my my my, the usn usually has hundreds on there... please tell what you think is reasonable. 2. helicopters patrol for enemy subs..

aegis cruiser: they have missiles too........

nuke sub: aren' t the missiles stored in pairs...?

transport: too little movement..

all of the naval units have too little movement.. really it can be a problem.

i need to figure out how much one grid square is equal to in miles/kilometers/feet/whatever.

air units:
bombers: they can travel much farther!

jet fighters: bomb subs..

all the bombers: i don't think they could get off a carrier, do you?
(edit: regular bombers gained from flight CAN get off carriers in reality, less payload though, so i'll let them be either land or carrier based: stealth bombers will not work off carriers though.)

please respond with better more realistic stats, thank you much.

 

[God]

There is a mod likes yours in the Completed Mods section. I can't remember the name.

 

[sabo]

Good luck on your mod, another thing I find curious is tanks, when was the last time you heard of a tank taking 6 shots to kill a spearman, I understand multiple shots for infantry and the like but with a tank it usually only takes one shot. To answer you question about infantry, they do play somewhat of a role with attack but back in WWII the Germans used Tanks and Plane mostly for offense and the infantry was basically to shore up the flanks, infantry will rarely (unless they are suicidal) take on a tank unless it had bazooka's, now THERE's and idea for your mod, maybe upgrade infantry to Bazooka teams? By the way, how come I can't play any of the Mods, I get illegal operation messages when I try to load them, I can play the game fine, I can even play the game with the 121f patch but I can't seem to play and mods. I've tried 3, you think maybe I picked the wrong 3 and it was just bad luck?

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by sabo10
I've tried 3, you think maybe I picked the wrong 3 and it was just bad luck?

how did you try? Doubleclicked them?

Did you chek that the mods were fro the same patch you have installed?
Did you copy the files into the correct dir? Did you choose Play Scenario?Did you ever change colors in the files?

If you answer no to all of the above, please mail me, I'll mail you a file to try out so we can see what the problem is.

 

[Creepster]

For the subs part, it depends what type you are talking about. Fast Attacks or Boomers.

The Fast Attacks are hunter killers and are great for destroying ships, gathering intelligence and disrupting trade.

The boomers should be able to carry ICBM's

 

[Kilroy]

Originally posted by explodin dog
ground units:
infantry: they seem to be more defensive than offensive, aren't infantry used for ground invasions..?

In your mod, try leaving infantry the way it is, and increasing the marines' stats to 10/6. I think you'll be pleased with the results.

 

[philippe]

Originally posted by Creepster
For the subs part, it depends what type you are talking about. Fast Attacks or Boomers.

The Fast Attacks are hunter killers and are great for destroying ships, gathering intelligence and disrupting trade.

The boomers should be able to carry ICBM's

why should you carry icbms?icbms have unlimited range

 

[explodin dog]

no no no, not icbms, tactical nukes.. they carry them in pairs, so i heard.. two tubes... two nukes.. makes some sense..

 

[explodin dog]

also, tactical nukes are like short range battlefield missiles.. i heard in vietnam they had a plan drawn out to use a tactical nuke in the event of an important area or base being attacked with no other possibility of defense.

 

[etj4Eagle]

Originally posted by explodin dog
no no no, not icbms, tactical nukes.. they carry them in pairs, so i heard.. two tubes... two nukes.. makes some sense..

Actually a whole lot more than in pairs. I think at least one class had 12 missile tubes (its been a while since I last looked at the stats of the Ohio class and its predicessors). These would also have been strategic nukes, not tactical (but also not extreme range like the land based silos, though the russians had much better range on their rockets, and so could launch them from safe packs under the ice pack).

Both kinds of subs could also carry tactical nukes, since at least the later attack subs (Los Angelos class) could carry tomahawk cruise missiles. And this missile was originally designed to carry nuclear warheads. They had a real nice variety in design for tactical warheads, including ones designed primarily for hitting power grids.

Of course considering the damage that is done by a "tactical nuke" in the game, very likely this one nuke represents all the stategic warheads hitting the same target (often not the case, especially since they carried MIRV-- multiple independent reentry vehicle-- missiles.

 

[explodin dog]

yeah, i was checking out the navy's page or somewhere and it was noted as twenty four missiles! but in the game that would be very costly and cause too much damage to the target if even four of them were shot off.. that's why when i play i make it have a capacity of four.. though i have noticed they carry not only strategic nukes.. but tomahawks, cruise missiles possibly, etc..

 

[Zouave]

Naval Units?

My biggest complaint is that subs and privateers cannot attack enemy merchant shipping on trade routes - as they do in reality.

 

[Trabpukcip]

Ok I've e few things to say...

First to find how much km is a square on the map I suggest using the huge map of earth that comes with the game and count the numbers of square the atlantic ocean is doing and compare it to the actual size of the actlantic ocean.

Second, that's true naval units are way to slow. But that's less true with early ships such as galey, so keep balance.

Third, bombardment are not effective enought. Think of what looks a city in the real world after a massive bombardment and see how inefficent the bombers are the game...

 

[akinkhoo]

the 'russian shark' submarine carries 20 fully armed ICBM.....
that is a full 100KT of nuclear power!
you can destory entire nation with this submarine

~!

 

[sabo]

I have an idea for you, how about making a wonder where you can see your ally's movements when it's his turn on your mod. YOu know like Britain and US sharing battle plans in WWII? I am in a war with persia and INdia is my ally, I would just love to see how HIS fight with persia is going, then I could plan accordingly.
I don't know what you'd call it though. Also it probably shouldn't be a great wonder, just a little one so everyone can eventually have it... whaddya think?

 

[Punkymonkey]

I agree with you about increasing the range of some of the ships but i find no problem with the infantry. they can sometimes be good to have around and they are defensive not offensive. Infantry is not supposed to lead an attack but provide support for tanks and planes and to protect ground already taken.

 

[etj4Eagle]

Originally posted by explodin dog
yeah, i was checking out the navy's page or somewhere and it was noted as twenty four missiles! but in the game that would be very costly and cause too much damage to the target if even four of them were shot off.. that's why when i play i make it have a capacity of four.. though i have noticed they carry not only strategic nukes.. but tomahawks, cruise missiles possibly, etc..

Yep attack subs have tubes that carry the shorter range tactical weaponary. According to "Jane's Warship Recognition Guide" The Los Angelos class sub for surface lunched cruise missiles can carry: two types of Tomahowks, TLAM-N and TLAM-M and the Harpoon. The Harpoon is an anti ship weapon and the TLAM-N is the tomohawk with a tactical nuclear warhead. (These are located in vertical launch tubes). The USS Miami (SSN-755) has 12 VLS tubes (Clancy's "Submarine").

The Ohio for surface launched missiles, it can carry the Trident I or the Trident II, both or MIRV stategic nuclear weapons. The Ohio (again from Clancy) (SSBN-724) has 24 missile tubes and the previous boomers had 16 tubes.

This is why the Silent Service made such a great deterent to nuclear war. Each of these boomers was a nightmare in of itself, hidden in the depths of the ocean (especially since they were far more silent than the attack subs). And there was no way to ensure a first strike that would also take them all out. Only one needed to survive to make the first strike worthless.

 

[wohmongarinf00l]

bombardment is not very effective in this game.
when i use bombers, i have more failures than successes.
artillery too...a stack of 7 pieces attacks a city and only 3-4 succeed. a stack of 20 bombers goes in and only 7 succeed.

someone ought to perform a probability analysis of this thing as they have done for 1-on-1 combat.

 

[damunzy]

Actually that ratio isn't bad f00l....That can turn the tide of a battle depending on how many units are defending.

 

[etj4Eagle]

Originally posted by wohmongarinf00l
bombardment is not very effective in this game.
when i use bombers, i have more failures than successes.
artillery too...a stack of 7 pieces attacks a city and only 3-4 succeed. a stack of 20 bombers goes in and only 7 succeed.

someone ought to perform a probability analysis of this thing as they have done for 1-on-1 combat.

What units were defending, as remember I believe bombardment units only have an attack strength of 8 and at least civilians and buildings have a defense strength of 16. And when you add in all the bonuses for units, if it is an infantry or even worse a mech infantry you will miss alot.

However, this is easy to fix if you don't like the current settings, as you can just up the strength values in the editor.