The new crazed

[Sarisin]

Here is my feedback on the changes in .40q on werewolves:

Ravenous Werewolves are being created on almost every battle where the Baron kills a living unit. I think I've had at least 20 so far in my game.

I have 4 Blooded Werewolves. The rest have been killed. I can live with a 20% survival rate.

However, there is still a problem with the Ravenous Werewolves running off and ignoring easy targets to be killed either defending or attacking tougher targets. For example, I was at war with Svartalfar, and a Ravenous Werewolf ran right past a wounded Svartalfar Archer, an easy kill. The next turn it was killed by Buboes. I watched three Ravenous Werewolves attack a barb city defended by a barb archer - not good odds there.

OTOH, I actually had one defeat an Elephant that was wandering around.

I haven't had any of my Blooded Werewolves create Ravenous Werewolves yet, but they have had limited combat chances. None have upgraded to Greater Werewolves, but again the one with most XP has only about 25.

Conclusion: I think the new system is better. The AI targeting when it takes over your Ravenous Werewolves is awful, but, as I said, I have no problem with getting a 20% success rate in getting Blooded Werewolves. This comes from the higher rate of Ravenous Werewolves created by the Baron. Definitely, an improvement over the old, new system.

 

[Ranos]

I'm four turns away from completing the Baron in my current game. I'm looking forward to seeing his new spawn rate in action.

 

[Fafnir13]

I've been playing a Perpentach game with the goal of messing around with crazed/enraged units. Unfortunately, my continent has not exactly been cooperative. AI's have been absolutely moronic. Turn 300 has rolled around with Decius of the Bannor only just now building his first archer, a big upgrade from the scouts (only scouts, not even warriors in sight ). The Calabim and Amurites (whom I just crushes via the swordsmen, Saverous and the Good Baron) also were using scouts extensively.

Using the Baron in this case would make me cry that he's overpowered. Almost every single one of my ravenous werewolves managed to become blooded. However, this is only because the AI is being dumb as a brick. Were there more axemen and archers about, I imagine it would have been a different story. As it is, I've lost more to bears then anything else.
Also, I am not sure, but did the werewolves used to upgrade when they attacked a worker? I know it would get rid of enraged, but I don't know remember if that made them blooded or not.

So, the Baron appears to be, under the new system, the kind of hero you either rush for or mostly ignore. Get him early game and he will be able to get a good army of werewolves up and running with ridiculous speed. Get him later and it will be an uphill struggle for any to survives vs archers and what not. Working as intended? Perhaps. I don't think the early game really needed another snowball effect int it.
It might be good to find some way of lowering the spawn rate of wolves earlier on and raising it later. Perhaps a special promotion that requires higher nature techs would do the job. Start him out at 25% then bump that up in two doses of 25% each, ending at 75% which I think it's at now. Some extra requirements like 3 and 4 star on each might help as well.

I was hoping to try out lunatics in this game as well, but it's become such a horrible steamroll that it really wouldn't give an accurate perception of their usability at this point. Hopefully my neighbors will put up more of a fight next time.

 

[Sarisin]

I think you make an excellent point of your timing of building the Baron. Also, a lot has to do with if you are at war or not and whether there is still open territory for barbs. The whole targeting thing again.

I am into my second .40q game and finding the same thing as my first. I am getting tons of Ravenous Werewolves, but few survive as Blooded Werewolves. One thing that happens often is the Ravenous Werewolf makes a kill and gets promoted to Blooded Werewolf. However, before your turn when you can promote it and get some health back, the badly damaged Blooded Werewolf is killed.

I would estimate again, that only about 20% of the Ravenous Werewolves created survive to Blooded Werewolves.

Killing Workers not only promotes the Ravenous Werewolves to Blooded Werewolves, but also they capture the Worker. However, I have noticed the loony Ravenous Werewolves go out of their way most of the time to avoid Workers (and damaged easily killed units) to attack stronger units or cities. In my game now, I am constantly seeing messages that my Ravenous Werewolf was killed by a Longbow.

Despite the frustrating targeting by the Ravenous Werewolves, I don't mind the way this whole thing is working now.

However, after my last game where I managed to hit AC 90 (likely will happen again in my current game), I wish there was an in-game option of shutting off the Armageddon Counter NOW.

 

[Fafnir13]

I would like it if you could turn it off but still have it rise, just so things like Stigmata and the like could still work.

Anyways:

10. Crazed and Enraged are no longer possible outcomes from mutation.

Thank you!

 

[iffi]

In short, I found them both entertaining and situationally strategically usefull.

In detail,

1) My first worry was that they are now overpowered, but the fact that you most likely lose one for every dead enemy they slay while enraged in enemy territory makes it quite even. In your own lands they are just lovely. Against barbs they have great entertainment and practical value. They can even sense a hostile barb unit which you can't see, which is great even if not intended.

2) If you take lunatics with you on your invading stack, better take twice the number you would take any other melee unit. The chance of them going nuts is quite satisfactory, but the further away your target is the less reliable they obviously become.

3a) I was playing with No Settlers and Barbarian Lands so there always were targets available. I can imagine lunatics becoming troublesome/redundant when the whole world is 'domesticated'. Then they would either do nothing (no enemy) or kill themselves off in enemy territory, but..

3b) ..there still is the entertainment value. But only when you can afford the 'waste' of hammers and time that could have been used to build something else. If you are far behind in power, choosing something more reliable becomes the better option. But for those who choose not to take that particular gaming session too seriously, go for it.

4) I chose Mobility I as the first promotion. They shoot off like a centaur in heat when they start hearing the voices, and it increases the chance they can escape back home after they have calmed down. It is tempting to take City Raiders to exploit their raw attack power (with metal weapons even!), but Combat promotions are perhaps more practical.

5) For those who still wont tolerate Lunatics there are Stygian Guards coming available a bit later, so no reason to be too upset about the issue. Skip the tech (and Saverous) completely and go straight for Fanaticism, and you will dominate.

 

[Blackmantle]

after the changes in the upcoming patch and most recent patches, i have to say I'm more or less fine with it now.

But it would really help to make it rounded if you still thought about something for heroes + possibly world units... (like for example treating the hero-promotion in regards to lunacy in a comparable way as immune to disease works in regards to disease and plague... Enraged is not a real problem here but could still be included...)

workers still seem to have been 'missed' or simply not checked yet but they are far less problematic (and mud-golems could even possibly really do put up a fight. But those are non-living anyways so its a non-issue for them allready now...)