The New Traits

KingSteve3721

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What is your opinion on these? I just got this game a couple days ago, i played civ4 and then left it out in the dust for a looooooong time ;)

Anyway, your thoughts on them? What are some great new "synergys" between the new combinations?
 
Yeah, Charismatic is close to finacial IMO. On higher levels and when you are using chopping it can easily double the number of usable citizens in each of your cities.
 
Duuk said:
Imperialistic rules.

Protective is good.

Charismatic sucks.


Ha ha, must be a joke

Charismatic is a powerful trait that becomes more powerful the higher the level you play at.
Imperialistic becomes weaker the higher the level you play at due to less building of settlers.
Protective I initially though of as being a very poor trait, only useful for MP, but I now rate it as very useful especially against early barbs. Again this trait is more powerful the harder the level you play at, as the AI has more units and defence actually becomes necessary.


Really good synergy IMO would be

organised and imperialistic
aggressive and charismatic
 
charismatic is very powerful and has good synergy with
* protective for fast promoted defenders (churchill),
* agressive for fast promoted offensive units(none ;)),
* expensive for pushing happiness AND healthiness caps (George Washington)

Protective is not that great for me, because i like attacking more than defending (as most players do), but beware of AIs with this trait!
It has good synergy with aggressive (Tokugawa), making really mean gunpowder units.

Imperialist sounds really powerful for Rex. Never tested it.
Could make good synergy with organized (Julius Caesar), AFAIK or with charismatic (more GG + lower xp required = high level troops for Genghis Khan + UB giving even more XPs)
 
I don't like protective either for the same reason as Cabert, but I do think it's a real contribution to the game. It's becoming much harder to overrun AI's. Not only aggressive and creative civs are anoying (early on), but also the protective civs. Decreased chances to find a weak neighbour in the early game..
 
I would choose Charismatic as the best of the new traits, followed by Protective and Imperialistic. Not a huge fan of imperialistic since on harder difficulties you will ruin your tech research if you expand past 5 cities early, thus making the early cheap settlers much less useful. Charismatic is not quite as useful as Aggressive/Protective as a war trait, and not as useful as expansive/organized/financial as an economic trait, but both benefits together place it near financial for the best trait. Protective is useful, more so during the rifleman/infantry era.
 
I feel duped by the Imperialistic trait and rate it at the bottom of the three.


It looks good from afar, and as is the norm in these situation, it is actualy far from good. The double production on Settlers is misleading because the bonus is only applied to hammers being generated. It is more like a 33% boost, at best.

And as mentioned above, how many settlers you gonna generate anyway? For about the same production (sort of), I's rather build some axes and take a better, more developed city with Charismatic or lock down my new acquisitions with Protective.
 
Of the Imperialistic Leaders, Genghis and Cyrus are the only ones that hosed by the 'settler boost' half of the trait. Cathy, Vicki, and Julius all start with Mining, so they are able to immediately take advantage of the :hammers: boost. Many strategies rely on beelining for Bronze Working (the settler boost also applies to chopped :hammers:).

I find that even at Monarch level, where competition for city sites ramps up pretty quickly, Imperialistic Leaders help me get better sites, by shaving a few turns of each settler. Especially Cathy, who also enjoys the border popping Creative trait.

Ideal example:
* Settle on a plains hill (2 :hammers: in city square)
* Build queue Worker, Warrior, Settler
* Mine plains hill (4 :hammers:) while building Warrior
* If you've grown to size 2 while building the Warrior, you can work the city center (2 :hammers:), the mined hill (4 :hammers:) and either a grass forest or any 3 food square for one more food/hammer towards the settler.
* Those 6 :hammers: become 9 :hammers: plus the extra :food:/:hammers: makes 10 total production towards the settler which means you can build a settler in 10 turns at size 2. That settler would take 15 turns for any other leader, giving you a precious 5 turn head start on any other leader.
* That 5 turn advantage is one border expansion for Cathy's newest city :)
* That size 2 city can now pump out another Warrior/Settler pair in 13 turns.

Note that this is dependent only on one Tech: Mining.
 
redcoats which drill/city gar is destructive
 
Churchill's Redcoats are indeed grotesque - Drill I, City Garrison I, and faster promotions. . .

:)
 
I'm a bit disappointed in how Protective works. Sure it has a lot of benefits in the early game, but once gunpowder units march in, it becomes almost useless. And a non-offensive strategy could use a strong defense especially in the late game, when culture flipping tends to outrage your less peaceful neigbours. edit: oh, it works also on gunpowder units? hm, seems the dutch translation of the manual is wrong (big surprise...). Anyway, I'm still not very convinced it's good. Annoying in the beginning, sure, but usefull to win I don't know.
 
What?

The Protective trait also upgrades gunpowder units, so all your gunpowder units get drill, a promotion that is not allowed normally unless you do some creative upgrading.

The thing with Protective, I've found, is that it helps with fighting early barbs. Try a game with raging barbarians, then play a protective leader and mass some archers. Go ahead, give them the immediate shock or cover (because drill enables those promotions) or give them better drilling, and then beat those barbs back. Your neighbors will be worrying about pillaging, but you'll have the leg up.

If you want to play a leader with an all-military focus, take Tokugawa--he has Aggressive and Protective. His archers, his axemen, they are just both great units. Early wars are without a UU are easiest for Tokugawa, I would say.
 
Threads such as this one remind me of the saying:

Don't bother me with the facts, I've already made up my mind.
 
Duuk said:
Maybe I'm using charismatic wrong, but to me it's nearly useless.

Just go and fight someone, your units will level up a lot quicker and higher level units generally last longer giving them even more exp. But the benefit of the trait most people are referring to is the +1:) in each city, that has a bigger benefit on the higher levels where the happy cap is lower.
 
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