The Official Civ4 Ideas Thread

[Grav]

I'd like to see an increased importance on getting more than 1 resource. Currently, 1 resource supplies your entire empire, so getting other sources is rarely useful (except for trade, of which they prolly already have that resource anyway).

THIS is what I propose.

DO NOT limit the amount of units that can be made by resource tile, but limit the number of CITIES that can produce the unit that uses that resource!! That way, someone with more resources, actually HAS an advantage strategically!

You could say... for every oil you own, 2(or whatever number is deemed appropriate) cities at a time can make units that require oil. You could choose any cities you want, but you can only a max of two(or whatever the max is) per resource.

Under this model, someone with more oil(or whatever), could upgrade/produce/build faster than someone with not as much (all the while, neither is limited to a max number of units, just rate of production). This makes perfect sense! It would encourage real resource competition, and it creates a whole new level of possible diplomatic options.

 

[jayqubed]

Originally posted by klaus
pond: "an idea i saw in Rise of Nations: attrition"

good idea. what about "supply wagons" in that case?

or possibly supply lines. again in panzer general territory conquered counted as supply lines, and units in a bubble (no supply line connection) drained of supplies until they could no longer defend or fight. civ4 units could have two bars; one for strength/hp and one for supplies. groovy idea indeed

 

[wlievens]

Originally posted by Grav
I'd like to see an increased importance on getting more than 1 resource. Currently, 1 resource supplies your entire empire, so getting other sources is rarely useful (except for trade, of which they prolly already have that resource anyway).

THIS is what I propose.

DO NOT limit the amount of units that can be made by resource tile, but limit the number of CITIES that can produce the unit that uses that resource!! That way, someone with more resources, actually HAS an advantage strategically!

You could say... for every oil you own, 2(or whatever number is deemed appropriate) cities at a time can make units that require oil. You could choose any cities you want, but you can only a max of two(or whatever the max is) per resource.

Under this model, someone with more oil(or whatever), could upgrade/produce/build faster than someone with not as much (all the while, neither is limited to a max number of units, just rate of production). This makes perfect sense! It would encourage real resource competition, and it creates a whole new level of possible diplomatic options.

Not a ad idea, but i'd still prefer just having the resources in units. XXXX barrels of oil, YYYYY horses, ...

 

[Zandrew]

Originally posted by wlievens
... i'd still prefer just having the resources in units. XXXX barrels of oil, YYYYY horses, ...

That sounds good. That way you'd have some resource areas better than others, but you wouldn't know how good they are until you developed them. Your Saudi oil field could be better than your Texas oil field.
Oil should be available offshore too. To connect to it you'd have to build an offshore platform in a city close by, like the mines built in the Age of Discovery scenario.

 

[x Dionysus x]

How about making the Abomb available and having ICBMs and tactical nukes have a larger effect on the structures built within the city.


While I'm on the subject of nuking and bombing people... I think you should be able to raze a city that has a wonder in it and have the wonder remain... After all, the Oracle of Delphi, the Pyramids, the Aztec civ creations have survived years of bloody war and having been tossed from hand to hand.

I really would love the characters in the game (Cleo,Liz, Al, Cat etc to evolve as the game goes on... especially if they have been war boggled or wealithily expanding for a while.

 

[baseballfan45]

i think nations should have a religious part of the tech tree and break off into other religions
eg: catholic breaks off into protestant, or you could stay catholic

also you should have religious leaders who can start a crusade which rallys units from your cities

finally nations of the same reliogion should be nicer to eachother and maybe rally against another nation/

 

[CivMad]

It should be possible to control how quickly or slowly time passes in the game. I prefer playing in the early periods to the later. I'm always disappointed that the Bronze age ends so soon.

 

[dguichar]

Name of Feature: Deeper modelling of laborers & specialists

What this feature should do in the game:

First, let's take into account that each city produces 3 types of resources: food, shields & gold by working a tile with a laborer. Those will be refered as 'basic resources'.

Then, there are 3 other types of resources: research, happiness and culture which are a transformation of a basic resource (gold can go to research or happiness), produced by a luxury (happiness) or by a building (culture) where there's no tile directly involved. Those will be refered as 'advanced resources'

Currently there are generic laborers which produce certain amounts of each basic resource based on tile potential and the improvements on it.
The idea is to have 3 types of basic laborers:
a) food laborers: produce a large amount of food and a small amount of shields.
b) shield laborers: produce a large amount of shield and a small amount of gold.
c) gold laborers: produce a large amount of gold and a small amount of food.
Each amount will be modified by the tile potential and the improvements on it, as it's now.

And also have 3 types of advanced laborers (availables with some appropiate tech advance), those who can only produce a small amount of gold; but in replace of producing food and shields, they can produce one type of the advanced resources:
a) research laborers: produce a large amount of research.
b) happiness laborers: produce a large amount of happiness.
c) cultural laborers: produce a large amount of happiness.
Each amount will be modified by the tile potential and the improvements on it, but maybe an special type of improvement (available with the same tech advance required to actually have the advanced laborer) will be required to have the advanced laborer working the tile.
An example of this was given in another thread by sourboy, a worker can give a tile a 'national park' improvement and can only be worked by an advanced laborer of the cultural type named 'forest guard'.

Let's now go into specialists, those who produce one or more types of resources (be they basic or advanced) by their own instead of having to work a tile.
So there'll be six types of basic specialists, those who produce only one type of resource: food specialists, shield specialists (currently civil engineers? i haven't played Conquests yet), gold specialists (currently taxmen), research specialists (currently scientists), happiness specialists (currently entertainers), cultural specialists.
But also 15 types of level 1-advanced specialists (producing two types of resources): fs, fg, fr, fh, fc, gr, gh, gc, rh, rc, hc.
12 types of level 2-advanced specialists (producing three types of resources): fsg, fsr, fsh, fsc, fgr, fgh, fgc, frh, frc, grh, grc, rhc.
8 types of level 3-advanced specialists (producing four types of resources): fsgr, fsgh, fsrh, fsrc, fgrh, fgrc, frhc, grhc.
3 types of level 4-advanced specialists (producing five types of resources: fsgrh, fshrc, fgrhc.
And the level 5-advanced specialist (producing all types of resources): fsgrhc.
Of course, the higher the level of the specialist the higher the era of the tech advance required to have it. Maybe this will lead to expand the current eras to 6 in order to fit the number. Basic specialists are availables in era 1, level 1-advanced specialists in era 2 and so on till level 5-advanced specialists in era 6.

A final note is that some appropiate tech advances may increase the laborers or specialists productivity.

How would this feature work:
This feature will indeed increase micromanagement, but will help to enhance the modelling of the economic system. Allowing to have specialized cities to enhance the production of a needed resource in each part of the empire.

Gameplay:
Those cities close to tiles which produce only a small amount of food (like mountains or jungles) can have a few food laborers and a lot of shield labores to turn it into a shield-specialized city. The same goes for the other options and have a food-specialized city that grows fast to allow expansion and have a gold-specialized city that allows the empire to pay the bills.

To avoid exploitation there should be a turn-delay on changing a laborer from a tile to another (also proposed by sourboy in the same another thread) and on changing a resource to another (food-laborer to shield-laborer, for example). The higher the difference, the higher the delay.

The AI can use this feature just as the human does to maximize an specific city production according to a goal. By just asigning a flag to each tile to represent it dominant resource and have it read by the AI. This shouldn't put a pressure on system resources, because it's just extra information per tile... maybe a couple of nanoseconds more to process and a couple of bytes more to store.

Keep civilized

David

 

[dguichar]

Name of Feature: Food sharing & national granary

What this feature should do in the game:
Each city connected to the trade network will share it's food with the empire. Those not connected must survive on their own.
This may lead to change the current concept of city growth by food-box filling to another based on tile potential, city location and migration.

How would this feature work:
The exact amount of food required to feed the population of each city will be delivered by the national granary. Any excess should be used for an extended concept of military maintenance, having every unit to be feed in addition to be paid in gold.

Gameplay:
As military units will now require food, pillage will be more important.
First it will allow the attacking military unit doing the pillage to reduce the extra food produced by the defending empire's national granary and therefore reducing the number of military units available to it. Also, it'll feed the attacking military for a number of turns based on the tile food-potential improvements included (military should eat the same as civilians, if tile food-potential is 6... the unit will be feed for 3 turns).
Second, the empire leader may choose to starve civilians in order to feed their military which in turn may increase unhappiness produced by war-weariness. If a military unit isn't feed by national granary's ration or by enemy's sacked fields, it may make a check of hunting in wilderness (this means tiles not used by any city, even if they are cultural influenced)... if it doesn't pass it, the unit dies.

This will eliminate the current exploitation of huge armies and will make units more valuable. And make warmongering harder, except for militaristic civs which may get some bonuses on this area (higher chance of passing hunting in wilderness check or so)

Keep civilized

David

 

[baseballfan45]

I think there should be MUCH more units
eg- in civ 2 there were knights and crusaders
crusaders have more attack and less def than knights(5,1,2) but knights are more well rounded(4,2,2)

-Attrition sounds like a great idea too, and supply wagons

 

[osco]

Zoom in
i wan't to get closer to the action

 

[Do_Sa_Nim]

Like the science and tax bar, there should be a law enforcement bar that would significantly reduce waste and corruption. If the bar were too high the people would be unhappy. (How would you like it if there were a cop with a M16 on every street corner. It would eliminate crime, but it would still suck).

 

[Do_Sa_Nim]

Like the science and tax bar, there should be a law enforcement bar that would significantly reduce waste and corruption. If the bar were too high the people would be unhappy. (How would you like it if there were a cop with a M16 on every street corner. It would eliminate crime, but it would still suck).

 

[Do_Sa_Nim]

sorry. I thought my computer didn't take submit the reply the first time.

 

[a4phantom]

Originally posted by Do_Sa_Nim
Like the science and tax bar, there should be a law enforcement bar that would significantly reduce waste and corruption. If the bar were too high the people would be unhappy. (How would you like it if there were a cop with a M16 on every street corner. It would eliminate crime, but it would still suck).

You mean it would eliminate unsanctioned crime. If unchecked govt were the answer to corruption, despotism would be the least corrupt and democracy the most. In fact the continuum you're asking for already exists in the form of govts, the more advanced govts are less corrupt but have other prices. On the other hand, your idea might work for introducing some flexibility and variety into the choice of govts. Japan and America are both republics, but Japan has a far less restricted govt and police force and thus a lot less crime (although legal corruption is enormous and expensive), but also less personal freedom.

 

[Kudos]

One thing I've always thought would be really cool to have is the threat of City-seperation to become their own Civilization.

So something like if a city, or group of close cities, were unhappy for hundred of years then they would hold a referendum for independence or maybe an independence war!

It would take a good deal of extra work, but it would be really neat. Plus theres plenty of civs that could break off from others, such as a bunch of English cities could break off and become Canadian or Australian. Also it would be great for scenarios.

 

[a4phantom]

Tax collectors, corruption and general unhappiness would all add to likelyhood of independence movements, as would foreigners.

 

[Do_Sa_Nim]

I see what a4phantom is saying. But I think its stupid how a city on the very edge of your empire can't do jack becuase of the immense corruption and waste. There would be corruption, but not enought to make the city useless. If you remember civ2 a courthouse cut corruption and waste by half. If a courthouse did that in civ3 i wouldn't be saying anything.

 

[CiverDan]

In all these discussions I have seen many good ideas, some that just arent workable, and some that would make the game too complicated (supply routes are once example). Here is a short list of what I would like to see:

1. No more unlimited RR movement.

2. Extend the Game far enough into the future to allow the construction of Spaceship with more appropriate tech. The idea that we could build such a Spaceship with current tech is silly, never mind the fact we have no where to send it to at the present time. I have always thought this has ruined the "Modern Era". No far future stuff in the core game though. This does not work well with a "One Planet" civ development game. Thats what GalCiv is for.

3. Make Future Tech worth researching. Provide extra food, production, etc. with future tech, Also, Greatly increase the score you get for researching each future tech.

4. Model Horses correctly. I dont ever want to "Lose my horses" because the city where I found them was captured. This would make Horses a unique resource and make "selling them" a decision that carries much more weight as you can take them away.

5. Model resource depletion differently. Make each unit/improvement build use a small amount of a resource (say 0.2% for each sword) for example. The rate of usage can be slowed by researching certain techs. Certain techs can also make new sources appear. Each resource would have a certain percentage tagged to it when discovered.

 

[a4phantom]

Originally posted by Do_Sa_Nim
I see what a4phantom is saying. But I think its stupid how a city on the very edge of your empire can't do jack becuase of the immense corruption and waste. There would be corruption, but not enought to make the city useless. If you remember civ2 a courthouse cut corruption and waste by half. If a courthouse did that in civ3 i wouldn't be saying anything.

I agree with you on that, if you are willing to adopt the right govt, build all available improvements, keep the people happy, station troops, and generally pay a very high price, it is not fair that cities beyond a certain number are uselessly corrupt. This is particularly silly after the inventions of railroad, nationalism, and radio, when distance ceases to really affect communication and influence. I have not yet played Conquests into the industrial era, can anyone evaluate the effectiveness of police citizens on reining in corruption in far out cities when you're over the OCN?