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The "Official" Diety Overflow Exploit Challenge

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Cromagnus, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Since it's hardly worth playing for competitive times while this exploit hangs over our heads, I figured it would be fun instead to attempt to achieve the fastest finish time *using* the exploit.

    Here are the rules:
    Victory Condition: Any
    Civilization: Any
    Speed: Standard
    Starting Era: Ancient
    Size: Standard
    Opponents: Your choice (no duplicates)
    Difficulty: Deity
    Map type: Continents or Pangaea only

    Fastest victory wins.

    Please stick to HOF rules while playing this, just to keep it a more level playing field. Although, by definition, these entries are probably not admissible in the HOF, this will keep it more about optimizing use of the exploit, rather than being influenced by cheats like rebuilding Oxford or saving social policies. In other words, no reloading!!

    Some have theorized that the optimal approach is to bulb your GS sometime around Architecture. However, while that may get you more techs, will it result in a faster finish time? Maybe you only need tanks. Maybe you can get super-early artillery. Maybe you could pull off super-early Internet for a CV.

    Just FYI, from what I understand, sub-t200 science victory is achievable through this method, so any strategy, to be competitive for a first-place finish, has to result in a sub-t200 win. However, there will be style points awarded for most creative abuse of the mechanic, regardless of finish time. So have fun with it. :)

    May the best cheater win! ;)

    And, please post a write-up on your general strategy along with your finish screenshot/etc. I'm curious to see how people approach this.
     
  2. Denkt

    Denkt Left Forever

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    You can't you duplicate opponent, something like mass Sweden or Venice could speed you up.

    Can you chose era to start in?
     
  3. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Sorry, I meant to say Ancient Era. And no duplicates, per HOF rules, especially because as you say, 7 Venices could influence the finish time more than the exploit! :p
     
  4. Fallen_Kings

    Fallen_Kings Chieftain

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    :crazyeye: Sub-200 is not difficult at all.Try 180!

    PS:better pick AIs who are favored in diplomatic victory,like Austria and Sweden for earlier world congress.
     
  5. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Sure... if you're bothering to wait for the Resolution... I'm trying to use it earlier. The exploit should be effective at speeding up Domination runs as early as t80: Early Machinery for easy XB rush, or Early Chivalry for Camel rush.

    I haven't tried it yet, but I did experiment with burning 2 GS on t90 with Babylon and got about 5000 bonus beakers. (Two GS = 800 beakers on t90, roughly, so that's like 6 bonus GS...)

    With anyone but Babylon or the Maya, the limiting factor is culture. You can't bulb until you complete Liberty. With Babylon and the Maya you can do it much earlier, but then you don't get nearly as many bonus techs.

    Right now, I'm fairly convinced that fastest time to victory with this exploit is Machinery/Chivalry rush, with a possible victory time of t140. Artillery gets the ball rolling too late to beat that kind of time. We'll see. I'm going to try tomorrow. ;)
     
  6. Doctor Doom

    Doctor Doom Warlord

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    Wait what is this exploit? I'd love to participate!
     
  7. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    See here

    The idea is to use the fact that overflow beakers get the same bonus % for other civs knowing a tech as normal beakers, intentionally fall behind in science and use an early GS or RA to start an overflow cascade which slingshots you into the info era.
     
  8. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    I NEVER KNEW ABOUT THIS!!!!! :cry:
    Is this how players like tommynt manage ridiculously fast SV times? So much for me researching sailing early to get that extra trade route...

    and there goes my motivation to play Polynesia... blah... early cargo ships could never result in enough growth to make up for this kind of science.

    And so much for my motivation in playing GotM for finish times...

    In Multiplayer though... I wonder if anyone will take sailing now...
     
  9. direblade99

    direblade99 Warlord

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    No Tommynt is just really good, if you check his channel
     
  10. bison21

    bison21 Warlord

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    Ouch, yeah please don't spread the idea that all deity players have been using this until-a-week-ago-more-or-less-unknown-exploit. Please watch their videos, you will find no such thing.
    @btt: I am looking forward to the experts trying this :) :)
     
  11. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    considerung that t110-t120 domination vic isnt too hard (espacially with chossing own and opponent civ) 0 exploiting is needed for fast finish times - who need tanks or Arties when he can have Camel archers or choKnue or Impies or ...

    Not too speak of the ais inability (it simply dont care ...) to defend its own cap
     
  12. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Do you think this approach can have any good counsiderations in multiplayer(non duel ffa games where education is often a must)? I wonder if it works well at quick speed. Surely.

    It's definitively something that the devs should patch imo. Still, the most impressive part is that this thing has been (discovered?) posted over 6 months after release! :eek:

    Kudos to the OP, maybe some players were exploiting the game without telling the truth :ninja:
     
  13. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    Why is the bulb overflow an exploit?

    If the rest of the world already knows the tech and you don't you get a bonus. Does it not make sense that the bonus is included in a bulb?

    Just because canon on this website says save all GS until 8 turns after research labs are up for max beakers doesn't mean you should do that every time. Result: Max beakers against virgin research assuming tech lead.

    In fact, you are getting more beaker for the buck if you are gaining tech after at least one other civ knows it. Why 'waste' beakers being the world's research leader? It only makes sense if you are going to use that advantage right away.

    Example:
    Ben Franklin INVENTED Electricity
    Marconi INVENTED Radio
    Some dude INVENTED Dynamite

    See?
     
  14. Denkt

    Denkt Left Forever

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    The bulb overflow is very bad design which is why its considered a exploit.
    You basicly get science for researching Techs which should't happen in the game really.

    You should be punished for keeping cheap Techs around, not get rediculus science for mass overflowing them.
     
  15. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    In my opinion its even bad design to get ANY benefit for lagging behind in teching, its one of the many design decisions to make the game more easy.
    But to make the game easy there is allready emperor difficulty ...

    But even with this design desicion in back a simple fix of the formula:
    Currentbeakers=3000*(1+0.3*7/8)+100=3787

    to
    Currentbeakers=3000 +100*(1+0.3*7/8) would "fix" this "exploit"

    Or even more simple not to give a multiplicator benefit to your tech rate when teching a tech allready discovered but to have no multiplicator at all but only additions and subtracts

    and well yes you can kinda easly neglect oper path in mp, the problem there is that this exploit just works if multiple players have discovered a tech before you.
    So if multiple players neglect 1 path its much less helpful.

    Also you need really good timing, waiting for too long means that u might get many techs in 1 turns but the tech tree consists of many many techs...
     
  16. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    You are confusing game play with design decisions. You want a 'fair' game.

    But the game is a recreation of world history on alternate terrain. Its not checkers. This overflow function allows empires to catch up to the world and skip ages of technology like what happened IRL.

    See Japan and the Age of Sail.

    Admiral Perry shows up, does Japan still really need to spend 10 turns researching Navigation?
     
  17. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

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    Yeah, tommynt really is that good... but tommy, t110 domination victory on standard settings? That may have been possible pre-fall patch warmongering nerf, but I'd like to see someone pull that off now.

    Regardless of that, how do you cover the map that fast? Maybe with Darius's golden ages... *maybe* but I don't even see how you move that fast, and how do you tech Chivalry fast enough to do it with camels?? Taking out the whole map in 20 turns??

    Also, I don't know about you, but I'm almost certain no one's done this by accident without immediately realizing that it was broken. Getting one tech every turn for 15-30 turns would seem a bit odd for one GS... ;)
     
  18. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    An ordinary player would research to NC first in that scenario but Tommy knows he doesn't need it. He is also riding coattails all the way to Chivalry. In some way Diety is easier to exploit. The actual combat phase could be t80 or 90 to 120ish.
     
  19. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

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    He probably meant immortal [difficulty] CB rush or something along these lines.
     
  20. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

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    I finished this last xmas deity arabia gotm in turn 126 which d have been turn 122 if I havent went for a "wrong" city (wasnt cap which i thought it was).

    And there was irqup neightbour giving quite some resistance, just throwing in Venice or huns as neightbour instead them could shave like 8 turns.
    And all of this was done with 0 bribing other ais to fight each other. Or excesive milking of friendship gold.

    With a more rushlike civ like Zulu or China and some bribing I could clearly see sub t110 wins pretty doable on pang map.
    And we all know that its a simple navigation beline to finish things off like 15 turns later on a water map.

    edit: and obviously I speak about deity domination, lower lvl domination is a joke for every1 able to build cbows and move em.
    Even deity ai hardly builds more units as a 7 man army can take out in 1 turn.
    Its so simple - move towards city - stay at 3 tile range - kill all units for 1 or 2 turns - move towards city - shoot it for 2 turns - take it
    rinse and repeat

    Also this argument like this mistake in overflow fomula was "intended" is just nonsense.
    It IS intended to get allready discovered techs fast.
    But with this overflow mechanic u can then even discover techs which no1 else got in 1 turn.

    But then I havent even tested things myself yet - writing master thesis atm ...
     

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