The Order Stratagem

attackdrone

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So you have yourself a merry band of macemen and feel like conquering the world. You gather up your cadre and head off, cheerfully whistling a tune - theme music for your inevitable conquest. Upon entering your opponent's lands you pass idyllic farm after idyllic farm. How quaint, he's gone completely rural - this will be all too easy. The first border town is easily taken, your suprise assault was quite effective. Who cares if you lost a few men to their archers and spearmen - they lost more. In fact, the majority of their populace was priests, priests! Hah! Lets see their priests stand up against your well disciplined army.

Where did all those crusaders come from! All he had were priests and farms! How did he get the tech for crusaders? He never even built cottages, the fool. How do they have enchanted weapons and shields of faith, your foe claims to worship the order! Are those -Dwarven- Inquisitors you see? Madness! So much fire, so much death!

You my friend, have just fallen victim to The Order Stratagem Not a trademarked Stratagem.

1- The Order Stratagem does not rely on Cottages/Towns for research or trade income.

2- Yes, those are Dwarven Inquisitors you see.

3- Yes, the cities are filled with priests. Unfortunately for you they all happen to be exceptionally skilled carpenters and blacksmiths as well.

4- Killing the "Veteran" troops does no good. They are recruited that way. A unit will be a minimum of third level, perhaps even fourth if things go well for The Order Stratagem. Toss in Shield of Faith (Late Game), Enchanted Weapon/Fire Arrows/Spiritual Hammer in as well - that's some pretty beefy shock troops. So what if you kill ten or so of them, you are probably doing the Order player a favor by keeping his upkeep costs low!

Now, how exactly does this Order Stratagem work, you may wonder? Fortunately - that's where I come in - seeing as I have it all trademarked and whatnot Not a trademarked Stratagem.

I: The Setup
A: Economic Foundations
Farms and not Cottages are the mainstay of this strategy. With Agriculture and Aristocracy active, farms can become frighteningly good at producing food and gold. Also, focusing on farms allows you to support more priests, which translates directly into more production.
B: City Placement
For me, rivers are of the highest priority. I aim to get every possible city built next to a river - for the early agriculture as well as the ability to build breweries. Seeing as this strategy starts off as city states, distance penalties are quite minor, so feel free to expand a bit to snatch those prime riverside views.
C: Early Technology Priorities Edited
Getting Writing first is extremely useful. Of course, I recommend Agriculture first - then skip animal husbandry (even if you have cows/pigs) and head straight for Writing. Along the way you'll get Education, which gives City States. The Academy from Writing speeds your tech up massively in the early game. The next priority is to found The Order. After this I snag Runes of Kilmorph to use as an assistant religion, and bronze working / archery for defense. If I happen to find a hut that spurs me along towards the Runes of Kilmorph in the early game, I rush to dual found that first then the Order. Also, if there is gold near in my capital's radius I found the Runes first. At this point, farms will be producing as much research as the cottages/hamlets that your opponents have built, on a one for one basis. Furthermore, you're growing a lot faster also, and producing much more. Be sure to save one great prophet for the Tablets of Bambur, and another for the Code of Junil. Then, seeing as you researched philosophy for the Order techs, and Warfare for Form of the Titan (See wonders below), it's just a single step to Military Strategy, netting you that free great commander, who is massively useful if you are not playing an organized leader. You're also quite close to priesthood if you're playing Elohim, which gives you monks.
D: Civic Choices
Early on I always use City States, until I am well established, at which point I switch over to Aristocracy. Agriculture and Religious Discipline are a must. Religion and Social Order are the two preferred cultural value civics. Military State is what I go with when I have switched over to the Order. However in my establishment phase I use Arete.
E: Religion
Oddly, the first religion I found is the Runes of Kilmorph - this is an extremely useful adjutant religion. It enables you to have the economic basis to build enough cities early on to solidly establish yourself as well as switch over from city states to aristocracy relatively early on. After researching Arete, you'll be able to promote your units with Guerrilla-2, which is one of the best possible city defense promotions - assuming you build your cities on hills (I do when possible). Finally, Stonewardens and Former-Stonewarden Inquisitors are Crusader-buffers nonpareil.
F: Wonders
No specific wonder is crucial to this strategy with the one exception of the Altar of the Luonnotar. I maximise my great prophet generation at all possible times. The faster the Altar is built, the more production you have. Also useful are the Code of Junil and the Tablets of Bambur. Fortunately all of these rely on having Great Prophets around. Noticing a trend?
Additionally, the Form of the Titan is my all-purpose awesome wonder. If I can ever scrape up a unit of level six (and I sure do try to every single game as early as possible) I hide him in my capital until I can get the Form of the Titan built. When a Great Commander is found by researching Military Strategy, build the command post where you built the Form of the Titan. Any other wonder that gives Great Commander points (that you can comfortably build) should go in this city, including Heroic and National Epics. This Great Commander farm is only for Non-Organized leaders of course. Very occasionally I go for the Tomb of Sucellus, and only if I am not playing a civilization with Life mana, and if I see Marble nearby. The Great Library is also useful (see below), but of course not crucial in any way.
G: Specialists
One of the few annoying things that you will need to keep an eye on is the generation of your great people. You -will- need to check in on each city every time it grows to make sure it's still making priests instead of engineers (in the early game). Also, be sure to dedicate one city to the generation of Great Scientists - I find a steady source of Academies to be of the highest assistance. Try and get the Great Library built here.

I: The Execution:
A: Industrial Powerhouse
Your army of priests, now producing 2-4 hammers each (depending on how late in the game it is) should give you a manufacturing capacity far beyond any of your opponents. Having used this strategy in multiplayer I have been able to outproduce even the dwarves. Now, if you -are- the dwarves and are using this strategy, there's really nothing that can ever compare to your production. With all of this vast capacity, you should quickly run out of crucial/neccessary buildings to make in your core cities. Once this has happened, turn to military production.
B: Military Forces
Crank out a huge number of crusaders, confessors, macemen/axemen/spearmen. Whichever unit suits your fancy. If you're spiritual focus on crusaders. If you are bannor, go crusade and build Demagog Hordes. Each unit should be starting at level three or perhaps four. Toss on Enchanted Blade/Fire Arrows/Spiritual Hammer and Shield of Faith. Those are some pretty beefy recruits now. So what if you lose ten or so? That's how many you make in a turn. This is how I defeat Crush or Pillar of Fire. I simply send a decent sized stack of ten or twelve guys in to lull my foe into thinking that i'm commiting my assault. He torches them, killing them all but committing his forces in the process. After this comes my actual army of thirty or fourty units. It is a bit odd, the Order strategy relies on ruthlessly sacrificing thousands of your men to fool the opponent. But hey! Perhaps Basium will make better use of them in the afterlife.
C: Magical Support
During the period that you are following the Runes of Kilmorph, use this time to build three to six (or more) stonewardens. Later on you can upgrade them to Inquisitors, which lets you have them as Divine Channeling 3 units even when following a different religion (Stonewardens and their ilk do not leave you when you switch religions). Enchant-3 Divine and Body-3 Divine are vastly useful. Can we say Unyielding Order in every city in the late game? You'll be getting Earth and Law from your holy sites - the other crucial mana types are Nature (Since you will be unable to build druids as you will likely be good most of the game) and Enchant. Beyond this, Spirit, Life - basically whichever you find the most useful.

In conclusion - you may seem to be building an idyllic farming society of priests, but in reality you are indoctrinating and gearing up your society for total war on a scale that nobody else can match. That's how to play the Order (with helper Dwarves) - uncompromising holy war without end.
 
Civilizations and their Synergies with The Order Stratagem:

Bannor:
The Bannor are great to use for this strategy. Their ability to switch to Crusade and crank out demagogs and flagbearers is quite effective. I prefer Capria, seeing as you only get great commanders during a crusade - this offsets the fact that she is not organized.

Elohim
The Elohim are my personal favorite civilization for a number of reasons. Firstly, they are spiritual - very useful for building crusaders with mobility. Their monks fit in perfectly with the strategy of a large number of moderately experienced shock troops. Also, the Elohim start with Nature, Water, and Spirit mana - which do not overlap with the Earth and Law gained from the Code of Junil and Tablets of Bambur. Furthermore, the defensive promotion is handy - having a number of Guerrilla-2 Defensive Shield of Faith Spiritual Hammer Mobility Crusaders wandering about is not to be scoffed at. Lastly and most importantly the Elohim are the only civilization capable of effectively maintaining the armageddon count at a low level. This lets you avoid two crippling crises: Blight and Bane Divine.

Malakim
Varn Gosam can also be quite effective to play with this strategy. His adaptive trait is supremely useful - being able to start off as Creative for boder pushing, then go Organized to snag Command Posts, then go Philosophical to focus on Great People. Having Sentry Nomad Paladins is helpful also. As Varn Gosam I tend to scorch the plains outside my city borders, which stand in stark contrast to the pristine grassland farms. This lets me gain the advantage against whoever marches into my land.

Kuriotates:
Cardith Lorda does not make the best choice for The Order Stratagem, but if played properly he can be quite effective. He also has the Adaptive trait (see above). His City Hubs can snatch up a lot of land early on, and can easily be positioned on hills next to rivers (for defense and breweries). His Monuments are also quite nice, +15% Great People is nothing to sneer at. However, do you really need 200 production to build that 120 production unit once a turn every turn? I'd rather have two cities at 100 production building 8 units every 5 turns.

Khazad:
Nothing helps production like... you guessed it! More production! That is what the dwarves are good for. Their weakness is not being able to stick mages places to cast fire arrow on your units. However, when you switch from Runes of Kilmorph to the Order suddenly, and start throwing out hordes of Crusaders, Hammerfists, and Confessors, that usually more than makes up for it. Keep in mind that Crusaders get enchanted by your Stonewarden-Inquisitors, so that takes the edge off the lack of mages.
 
I understand the basic premise, but I have a few questions about execution. How many (if any) cottages do you build to spur your early research? When do you start cranking out the specialists? How fast do you expand?
 
42. First 2 levels of the Altar of the Luonnotar (annointed and blessed) +1 GPP points removed.
43. Blessed Altar of the Luonnotar (2nd stage) +1 hammer from priests removed.
44. Final Altar of the Luonnotar (last stage) +2 hammers from priests increased to +3.

could you work these 0.22 changes into your text?
 
Hmm... I'd call any strategy that relies on founding two religions without beelining straight for them doomed to fail miserably with any real opposition, even more so since it seems to require gems and incense nearby.

How viable is it if you reach the religions second, and lack either or both of the resources?
 
I understand the basic premise, but I have a few questions about execution. How many (if any) cottages do you build to spur your early research? When do you start cranking out the specialists? How fast do you expand?

I build cottages only on grasslands that are not adjacent to rivers. I find that the gold I get from aristocracy lets farms give as much benefits as hamlets, as well as more food/specialists. Often, scientist specialists bolster my research as well (so long as every city does not yet have an academy).

Einion Logos and a Philosophical Varn Gosam have become my two favorite choices to play this strategy with. The Philosophical trait assists a great deal in research and production - giving more academies in a shorter time frame and letting you reach the altar more quickly.

42. First 2 levels of the Altar of the Luonnotar (annointed and blessed) +1 GPP points removed.
43. Blessed Altar of the Luonnotar (2nd stage) +1 hammer from priests removed.
44. Final Altar of the Luonnotar (last stage) +2 hammers from priests increased to +3.

These changes in 0.22 definitely affect the speed of the productive powerhouse that is a priest army. However the basic premise remains the same (and even increases in utility at the very end of the game). Basically instead of rushing to the second level of the altar, you should rush to the third level. Having a Philosophical leader helps immensely because it essentially doubles the rate at which you get great prophets.

Edit: I also just played through a small Great Plains 3 player free for all multiplayer game with my roomates. I went with the Elohim and was able to found both the Order and the Runes of Kilmorph, research writing first, and snag both Gems and Incense. Needless to say, it went quite well for me. There were a lot of dead Sheaim and Khazadim littering the plains. Alas.
 
Hmm... I'd call any strategy that relies on founding two religions without beelining straight for them doomed to fail miserably with any real opposition, even more so since it seems to require gems and incense nearby.

How viable is it if you reach the religions second, and lack either or both of the resources?

Founding Runes of Kilmorph is not really required at all - the main benefit is gained from researching the tech and spreading it / building Temples of Kilmorph to support early expansion. The Stonewardens gained from Gems are not neccessary in any way, but if you have gems or are able to trade for them for a few turns the Stonewarden-Inquisitors help immensely.

As for the Order and Incense, those should definitely be priorities. Founding the Order helps out with law mana. However if you do miss founding it, you arent doomed by any means, you'll still be able to gain most of the benefits, and Runes of Kilmorph gives you the gold you need to expand.

Incense is pretty crucial however, it lets you build Confessors and significantly increase the happiness of your cities. Without Incense, you'd need to invest in catapults or fireball mages to fill their role. I have successfully done this strategy without being first to either religion and initially having neither incense nor gems. That playthrough did require a more conservative approach however - no massive and wanton wars that game.
 
The Order requires a Great Engineer for the Code of Junil, correct? What do people do in order to speed up the creation of the religious shrine? In my current game, I keep getting Great Scientists (despite the 25% chance of getting a Great Engineer). Normally, I found the religion's shrine soon after, if not right at, the founding of the religion itself. But with the Order I'm having a lot of trouble (and there are so many cities on this Huge map that follow it...).
 
The Order requires a Great Engineer for the Code of Junil, correct?

Nah, it's just a prophet. The only unconventional shrine-builders are the Veil (Sage) and the Leaves (Bard).
 
great strat guide , however i can only see it being useful for playing at noble or below. lets me outline a few points to consider.

1 - typically you shoudl see your basic 3 religions founded around turn 65. odd are you you dont have a tech jump you wont make it before another person.

2 - the order and veil are typically founded around turns 100-105. your not going to get a chance to found 2 religions in any well played game.

3 - having 2 religions in your cities causes unhappies. this is going to offset some of your happy gain.

4 - as soon as you flip religions you lose pretty much all of the reasons for taking the religion in the first place. teh units leave , the buildings are torn down.

on a side note , are you positive that the priests dont leave when you change religions ? and i really dont think you can cross promote disciples. i will have to double check that.
 
1 - typically you shoudl see your basic 3 religions founded around turn 65. odd are you you dont have a tech jump you wont make it before another person.

2 - the order and veil are typically founded around turns 100-105. your not going to get a chance to found 2 religions in any well played game.

until now i agree.
I played some order games, my recent is a public game on the german forum, earth18 map on immortal (i am still learning though) and it works quite well to beeline writing for a jump in research and go after veil or order then.

3 - having 2 religions in your cities causes unhappies. this is going to offset some of your happy gain.

only if you take a certain civic. And the -1 is balanced by the +1 another temple nets you, at least if you have incense.

4 - as soon as you flip religions you lose pretty much all of the reasons for taking the religion in the first place. teh units leave , the buildings are torn down.

only heroes and special units bound to your religion leave you.
temples and the like are not torn down.
In fact it is a good idea to have many a religion spread, at least in SP.

In MP i don't like the idea of adopting a state religion that was founded by another player as it gives him free view of all your cities. Hard to wage a war if your neighbour knows you are coming. Or even worse, he sees you going after another and can backstab you.

In most MP games i played until now good players don't bother to research more then 1 early and maybe 1 late religion as they fall behind quite a bit doing so. If you have a stack of catapults and some axemen ready when your neighbour is happy about his new-found religion you have an nearly garantueed new holy city for yourself a short time later...
 
are you positive that the priests dont leave when you change religions ? and i really dont think you can cross promote disciples. i will have to double check that.

High Priests will leave, yes. Normal Priests do not leave. You cannot promote a Stonewarden to a High Priest of the Order. However you can promote a Stonewarden to an Inquisitor, who also has access to channelling 3 divine spells.

Do you mind if I put some (or all) of this in the wiki?

Not at all, the reason I posted it was to allow new-comers to the game to be made aware of the Altar of the Lunnotar + Priests + The Order strategy.

Addendum: In recent multiplayer games and Emperor+ Difficulty I have not bothered to found the Runes of Kilmorph unless I happen to find crafting/mining/mysticism from a hut - that would give me the little boost I need to out-tech the others. Of course, I research it later, and still briefly switch to it. To get stonewarden-inquisitors, there is no need to actually found the Runes, you just need to research it at some point. Yes, the +1 to disciple units is that useful; as they do not use weapons this is the only base strength buff they are able to obtain. Also, I did update the Early Technology section of the first strategy post with this addendum, reflecting further refinement of the strategy.

However, beelining for writing first really does give you a significant early game tech advantage, which usually translates into being able to snatch up Runes of Kilmorph -and- The Order. You get 8 commerce from your palace, and the library + academy + elder council will translate that to 17 research plus whatever you scrape up from your other cities and any gold/resources/rivers that you may have nearby. You get aristocracy at code of laws, which is on the way to The Order. This makes your farms give as much gold as anyone's hamlets (If you're ready at that point to switch out of City States, it all depends on your start and how many good city locations you see). Really what lets you be an early-game tech juggernaught is the Academy that you get around turn 50.

To recap: The palace in Civ4 gives the vast majority of your early-game commerce, which directly translates into research. Anything that is able to directly enhance that initial research is of the utmost importance for early research. The buildings able to do so: Library: 25%. Asylum: 15%. Academy: 50%. Elder Council: +2. Alchemy Lab: +4. Temple of the Veil: +2. Of these, the Academy is quite the superior building. In the early game, having -one- Academy can give you nearly a +50% boost in total research, seeing as nearly all comes from your capital.

The Academy (Writing) lets you figure out how to be Greedy (Runes of Kilmorph), Corrupt (City States --> Aristocracy) Fanatics (The Order). Who knew such grand things could come from a place of learning?
 
I know it's called the Order Stratagem and everything, but is the Order really necessary for it?
This is coming from a guy who is really unimpressed by the Order as a religion, so take that for what it's worth. I'd like to be proven wrong though, and this seems like a good thread for finding out why you'd choose the Order. It just seems like a lot of extra effort and tech for not much.
Is it just for Ring of Flames?
Do you really need basilicas when your priest specialists are spewing out gold? Is there a huge advantage for social order over nationalism?
Is the 10% military production bonus from the temple really that big in the scheme of things? The extra priest it lets you run seems irrelevant since I assume you'd be running Religious Discipline all game anyway.

Otherwise why not just go Kilmorph? You get more than enough money to balance out basilicas, and paramanders instead of crusaders at fanaticism anyway.
Or why not Octopus and drown/stygian guards plus mutant looneys and nice research bonus and more sages? You can make extra use of those farms and whip as needed too! Also lots of mutated troops.

OR once you got Fanaticism and level 5 altar you could switch to the Veil for more food for even more priests and whipping and ritualists and eidolons (and you can still build loonies from your old asylums and mutate all your new troops too).
Oh man this makes me totally want to try an Octopus/Veil Bannor strategy now! A near-permanent crusade of mutant demagogs for the veil would be great!

Also: Once you've got Philosophy, your first prophet can lightbulb almost all of Priesthood, which gives happy and lets you get the later prophets for shrine/altar that much more quickly.
 
Is it just for Ring of Flames?
Is the 10% military production bonus from the temple really that big in the scheme of things.

Ring of Flames is pretty awesome. High Priests of the Order get Pillar of Fire and Bless - these are both handy. Also, when you're rampantly conquering things, you often run your economy into the ground. The extra -40% upkeep modifier from basilicas is crucial here, if you are to conquer and stay at 100% tech rate. Also, it allows you to build up a much larger army. The 10% military production bonus is icing on the cake. Also, I usually put Runes of Kilmorph and The Order in each city, thus getting the monetary bonus of the Runes. I just switch to the Order as my mid-to-late religion.

Of course, an Octopus Overlords/Bannor/Ashen Veil Crusade would probably work just as well. That's usually my route (Minus the Crusade civic) when I go with the Kuriotates.
 
@ Polycrates
Maintenance cuts are far more valuable later on in the game than gold bonuses because of two factors:
1. Rising maintenance costs as your empire grows. Runes of Kilmorph will only provide a flat boost of gold (+3 per city), 40% of your maintenance will end up being larger than 3 gold if your empire keeps expanding and your cities keep growing.
2. Inflation of expenses. Inflation will only affect the expenses of your empire. This is a percentage increase of all your expenses and the best way to fight this increase of expenses is to eliminate the expenses entirely because multiplying 0 by 100% (or higher!) is 0 but 10 + 100%(10) -3 -60%(10) = 11 gold in costs.
 
This stratagem looks like it could really benefit the Calabim. For starters, you're already going to be building farms instead of cottages, so the Agri-Aris combo is a no-brainer here. Runes converts you to Neutral so you can build the Altar and it's only a tech off from getting Moroi. Going for the Order requires Code of Laws (a neccesity for Vampires), and High Priests of Runes/Order can be gotten on the way to Vampire Lords (Divine Essence requires Theology). Runes Priests also have access to Graft Flesh, which can be used to make Vampire Lord/Order High Priest combos with access to Ring of Flames, Meteor Swarm, Unyielding Order, Heal, and other high-level spells, all without any research into the usual magic techs.

It's blasphemy, it's madness, but it looks wicked on paper. I'm going to try it out myself soon.
 
This stratagem looks like it could really benefit the Calabim. For starters, you're already going to be building farms instead of cottages, so the Agri-Aris combo is a no-brainer here. Runes converts you to Neutral so you can build the Altar and it's only a tech off from getting Moroi. Going for the Order requires Code of Laws (a neccesity for Vampires), and High Priests of Runes/Order can be gotten on the way to Vampire Lords (Divine Essence requires Theology). Runes Priests also have access to Graft Flesh, which can be used to make Vampire Lord/Order High Priest combos with access to Ring of Flames, Meteor Swarm, Unyielding Order, Heal, and other high-level spells, all without any research into the usual magic techs.

It's blasphemy, it's madness, but it looks wicked on paper. I'm going to try it out myself soon.

But Veil works so much better cause of Sacrifice the Weak. You don't even need Unyielding order, cause who cares about unhappiness when 1 population can support 4+ unhappy? Governors Manor even benefits from unhappy, if it's working as intended now.

And if you are not eating the unhappy population, you can whip them and get production that way.
 
It's funny - I basically had the last two posts as a thought process in my head earlier today, in that order. Also, Vampiric Courthouses, if working properly, provide only -20% maintenance, so you would not be able to eliminate maintenance entirely (which is the whole point of the Order).

RP wise, it's kind of cool in a Blood Dragon WHFB way. Powerwise, Veil is head and shoulders above Order for Vamps. I'd probably make the argument that Veil / spec is simply better than Order / gold across the board - I prefer the power of double pop, GPP, mass sages, gold and science boosts, whip or buy for production, and gambling halls providing +7-8 happiness to 0 maintenance and a minor military unit bump - but there is no argument for Calabim.
 
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