The Ottomans

[kb2tvl]

The strength of this civ is an early builder phase going militant in the early industrial age. Mobilization + Sipahi is a dangerous combo with indy trait.

For civ 3/ptw, Rep gov type is the best for this civ but, with the changes in c3c,an early industrial GA in Rep gov and changing to commy is the best approach for the Ottomans.

 

[Longasc]

Except the debate which tier of warmongering they fit in, this was a truly Ision-style article, scoutsout, really great.

Most players love Cavalry -> Most players love the Sipahi, Cav on Steroids.
Most people warmonger with the Ottomans, the question is just if it is really good to start warmongering in the Age of Cavalry and not before.

I would lead a war with Knights and later add Sipahi for further wars or to swing the tide in my favor.

According to popular belief, I would say: Rank them Top Tier for warmongering!
Even if their UU comes quite late... Cav is probably among OR the favorite units for warmongers.

 

[fret]

the question is just if it is really good to start warmongering in the Age of Cavalry and not before.

Having given the Ottomans warmonger thing a bit of thought, I'm inclined to agree, the thing to consider is when is the best time to start warmongering? Even considering that question though, I still rank the Ottomans number 1 overall.

The timing of warmongers, especially on the larger maps, is governedd by difficulty level. The major onslaught, steep curve, call it what you want. The time of the game when you have sufficient infrastructure and troop numbers to take the world with haste. This point in time has to be considered in the warmonger debate.

Taking a very basic view of this, with only persians and ottomans in the equation, you could roughly catogerize their status thus...

Chieftan-Monarch - Persians
Emp-above Ottomans

This is becuase the Otto's major advantage - good cav UU/high production GA/railroad just afterwards etc, is most effective at the higher levels, where it takes a while to play catch up and get yoursefl in a position to take the world.

At the easier difficulty levels the Persians have the advantage, because their sword based UU allows the player to rape the world sooner, something not possible at the harder levels, but made easier at the lower diffuclty levels.

IMO this timing all depends on which unit it is possible to clear the map with, the best one being the unit that can do it the soonest as is reasonably practicle. For a civs peak performance their UU should match this unit. Considering this, its not feasable to conquer the world at the higher difficulty's using a persian sword based UU (tiny and small maps excepted), yet its very advantageous to conquer the world using an otto cav based UU due to the timing.

Then you have to consider the effect the civs peak-timed UU has, sure you can rampage like hell incarnate at regent level with those Immortals, but troop movements are limited through inferior technology, their effect is dimished because of this. And at the later levels, espcially on the bigger maps, you will only kill a couple and make dents in a few of the AI with your Immortals, you wont conquer the world.

The Ottomans on the other hand, everything the warmonger wants is thrust into the game in a huge crescendo such that no other civ can come close.

At the top of the UU timing-effectiveness curve is the Ottomans -

-as soon as they get their UU they can get GA production (like any other civ, but perfectly timed because of......
-within 3 or 4 turns of this they can again increase production to almost threefold the original, by having all the core railroaded.
-they can then mobilize for war, and within 4 or 5 turns of getting the UU and entering the GA they can alomst quadruple sheild production over pre GA levels.

..and all this at exactly the same time as railroads are in place to take all the Sipahi created by this obscene level of production to the front line.

Its a formula that cant be beat by any other civ IMO.

 

[Ision]

Interesting observations fret

Personally I would rather play Persia at Deity than the Ottomans. Admittingly this is a matter of taste and style of course.

If I am going to be many-many techs behind and fighting wars for my very existence early - I would rather face those AI Knights, Pikes and Chivalry Tech UUs with the Immortal than with standard Swords and Archers. Furthermore, at deity I am far more inclined to welcome (and many times need!) an Ancient Age GA than at demi-god level. Assuming my typical game without too many adverse reverses early, by the late middle ages the tech gap has closed significantly and I am fully established as a legitmate threat to at least a respectable degree. Keep in mind that in essence the Immortal is a 30 shield Feudalism tech Med. Infantry that is available nearly an entire age before the actual 40 shield one.

I will grant you however, that if my start position was more of a 'corner type' (1 or 2 neighbors only - or had one of those wonderful choke points towards the enemy, allowing me to build behind that point : I would rather be the Ottos.

I cannot argue with you however - I know a few other deity level players that would take the Ottos over Persia. Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents.

Ision

 

[Kaboth]

Admittedly I've only played Emperor as my highest difficulty level but I frequently find myself fighting ancient age wars to gain more power and territory. I find it necessary ussually to keep up with huge empires like Inca and Sumeria. Admittedly I ussually play with max players on though.

So in this situation Immortal benefits me more than waiting for siphaphi to get any real power by which time the ai has probably rolled over me if I sit around just expanding and building.

Plus Immortals are a cheaper medievil infantry which proves better than my ussual MI/Treb combo throughout the middle ages.

 

[narmox]

I keep seeing references to the nerfed industrious trait.. What has changed with Ind anyway, in C3C?

 

[Kaboth]

I believe native workers only worked at 1.5 times regular speed and foreign workers work at 1/2 regular speed (for a non industrious civ). Plus there is no extra shield production in cities though I'm not sure there ever was.

 

[denyd]

I agree with Scoutsout as to the first tier builder as only the Maya can out grow/produce the Ottoman/Persian traits, but I have to disagree with the 2nd tier warmonger. I find that concentrating on the lower tech tier of the Middle Ages, providing a good shot at Leo's on the way to MT, makes the Ottoman an top tier warmonger. Building horsemen (I skip Chivalry) and being able to mass upgrade to Siphai, allow for an unstoppable force until Infantry is available in large numbers and considering the punch of a Siphai Army (10.4,3.9,4) this unit is valuable until Mech Infantry is on the board. I prefer being able to kick off my GA once I've gotten into Republic and with a lot of developed cities and the Siphai is perfectly timed to for that. As Fret pointed out, the timing of the Siphai can allow the player to essentially extend their GA until the Modern Era with rails and factories kicking in. The production and science boost of that GA can power the player right through Steam Power, Medicine and all the way to Radio with the TOE slingshot.

 

[tigerden27]

I like the warmonger strategy for Ottoman. The first time I played Ottoman I rushed to Millitary Tradition, after getting the Great Library. It almost felt like cheating. I don't think I even made it to the Industrial Age, before winning by Domination.

At one point I had 3 armies of Siphi, all by MGL. Two on my home continent, which I couldn't get off because I didn't have a ship large enough tranport them.

This games was the second in a series of 3 Regent games that convinced me I was ready for Monarch.

 

[Masquerouge]

The Ottomans - by scoutsout

Regent-Monarch level players who are trying to break "builder" habits and gain some warmongering skill should definitely try a game or three as Osman. The Ottomans can do enough building to keep a builder comfortable, while forcing a "change in formula" in order to play to the strength of the Ottoman Sipahi.

You're dead-on. I was a Vanilla Civ hardcore-builder until I bought C3C and tried the Ottomans... It's so easy to wage wars with these cavs on steroids ! They even made me change my habit of rushing to democracy ; now I beeline for military tradition, and then quietly finish the middle-age tech tree while
a. My UU triggers an early Middle-age golden age, my favorite for those awesome MA wonders
b. I wipe my neighbour's butt and grab those luxuries/strategic resources I still lack
c. I sell my techs for huge GPT to other civs ; hey, I'm a scientific civ, so I'm the leader !
d. I prepare myself for the tough time when my GA will end... by building FP and Adam's smith ! Great, I can keep that 80% on science !
e. I build workers to start on those railroads we will discover for free when entering industrial age.

Oh boy oh boy !

 

[apopholeus813]

I like playing with the Ottomans, this is way off the discussion, but Ii was just wondering where they came up with the idea for the unit. I mean it kicks ass with that guy with two revolvers. But I looked it up and in a few books i read it said that sipahi were turkish nobleman who could be called to fight, but one of the reasons they stopped being much use was that they refused to give up their bows for guns. Wouldn't a Jannisary have been a more realistic UU? I figured it had something to do with not wanting to make a defensive unit a more offensive unit.

 

[Shortyman]

I play as the Ottomans in Warlord and it seems to be the best civ I have played. I think that the Sipahi is the best special unit in the game. As soon as I get military tradition, I build Sipahi's in every city. After I have 20 or so, I send them all towards a weaker empire. Once I have taken over that empire, I either go for another one or stop attacking, depending on if they have Infantry. I then wait until i get modern armor to do another attack, but only if they don'y have Mech. Infantry. With my expansion, I usually have the more land than everybody, which relays into a better score.

 

[ottogentleman]

i played with ottomans many times,also playing current game with ottomans.estimated stat for sipahi against cavalry;

attacking cavalry against sipahi:3/7 sipahi wins.

attacking sipahi against cavalry:5,5/7 sipahi wins.

 

[Himalia]

Sipahi are indeed a very good troop. Ive never played as the Ottamons yet, im sure ill get round to it one day. Ive never been on the receiving end of a stacked up Sipahi attack but its simple to see how effective its going to be especilly that extra movement that really makes the bug difference.

 

[ottogentleman]

infantry needs resource and some weaker civs possibly won't have that thing and will train guerillas.guerillas can't prevent coming sipahi attacks..so you can play as warmonger most of middle and industrial ages.i think industrial age is best for GA timing.

 

[tduk123]

I find the Ottomans very easy to play with their cavalry UU it is very powerful against most medieval units and the ottomans can expand quickly because of that, the only problem i have is getting the research done




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