not exactly nitpicking but --

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Dec 18, 2024
Messages
176
i know i am really complaining a lot but this is legitimate feedback. I do not understand how you could pick the two leaders Teach and pirate lady over giving the Ottomans a leader. Ottomans are a tier 1 empire that deserve a civ with a leader. that leader would be perfect for this game as he actually ruled over many of the civilizations in the game.
 
i will have to post this in another thread, but its basically a similar argument to before. So the two leaders they included should NOT have been included over an Ottoman leader. Between Mehmet II "the Conqueror", Selim I, Sulieman and Mehmet IV they have so many choices. in addition, an Ottoman Sultan is a great ruler for other countries thematically such as persia, abbasid, bulgars, greece because he actually conquered and ruled them. Teach and that pirate lady ruled nothing. Whoever is making these decisions at Firaxis deserves to be fired immediately
 
Look man, I kind of want to see the usual classic leaders come back eventually, but the way you are pleading your case by being incredibly dismisive of interesting characters really isn't helping your point. for example "The pirate lady" So should we refer to Suleiman as the Onion man and dismiss him then? surely you see how it sounds?

also, being a "ruler" in the classical civ fashion isn't the only thing the devs are looking at in civ VII for leader inclusion.

I mean I don't really like the Pirate republic, but Blackbeard as leader in civ VII absolutely works. and for a naval based DLC Sayyida is spot on, heck I wanted to see Zheng Yi Sao, but I guess her chances are dramatically reduced with Sayyida in.

I'm sure we'll get Suleiman or Mehmed II later on, but It's so clear they are saving a bunch of fan favourites for an expansion.
 
Your leader suggestions would have felt off in this pack imho. The best "Ottoman" leader would have been Barbarossa for Tides of Power. I assume he was considered, but Sayyida al Hurra proved to be an even better fit for the pack, especially teaming up with Teach.
 
This one goes in the same bucket as “Civ 7 is objectively less historically accurate than Civ ??? and is therefore a bad game.” I don’t understand how some people see merit in pretending that their stance has some sort of objective basis when it’s clearly just a matter of opinion. Or maybe I’ve been living under a rock this whole time and missed the news that there’s now an objectively true tier list of civilizations that everybody needs to observe. What exactly is this argument? “The Ottomans are (allegedly) at the top of this list and the pirates aren’t.” I’m not really sure how this argument is easier to follow than why a pirate leader would be a good fit in an update that focuses on naval gameplay.
 
This doesn't exclude a legitimate ottoman leader from appearing. They might even do a special bundle down the line that has Ottomans AND a Ottoman ruler and I don't see it being a problem. All the DLCs we've had are ultimately bundles.
 
This doesn't exclude a legitimate ottoman leader from appearing. They might even do a special bundle down the line that has Ottomans AND a Ottoman ruler and I don't see it being a problem. All the DLCs we've had are ultimately bundles.
Ottomans are in Tides of Power, so they won‘t be bundled with an Ottoman leader.
 
i know i am really complaining a lot but this is legitimate feedback. I do not understand how you could pick the two leaders Teach and pirate lady over giving the Ottomans a leader. Ottomans are a tier 1 empire that deserve a civ with a leader. that leader would be perfect for this game as he actually ruled over many of the civilizations in the game.

Considerin Byzantium isnt in the game yet, nor is Alexander the Great, i dont think they are following a roadmap based on historical importance when adding stuff to the game

I think that their thought process was more like: Pirates are popular, they have a higher chance to bring players back and an Ottoman leader
 
Look man, I kind of want to see the usual classic leaders come back eventually, but the way you are pleading your case by being incredibly dismisive of interesting characters really isn't helping your point. for example "The pirate lady" So should we refer to Suleiman as the Onion man and dismiss him then? surely you see how it sounds?

also, being a "ruler" in the classical civ fashion isn't the only thing the devs are looking at in civ VII for leader inclusion.

I mean I don't really like the Pirate republic, but Blackbeard as leader in civ VII absolutely works. and for a naval based DLC Sayyida is spot on, heck I wanted to see Zheng Yi Sao, but I guess her chances are dramatically reduced with Sayyida in.

I'm sure we'll get Suleiman or Mehmed II later on, but It's so clear they are saving a bunch of fan favourites for an expansion.
that's fair. i don't know her name because i have never delved into the history of barbary corsairs like that. i am familiar with barbarossa obviously but for the most part focused on traditional history. i failed to recall her name as an accident not a sleight. as to "how it sounds" ill leave that up to you because its clear what you are trying to imply. that being said, i think we can agree the classic civilizations should be added now. your saying they are saving them for later, but the problem with that is the game is basically dead as of right now. they need to add the fan favorites right NOW. i guarantee if they added a huge leader pack with alexander, montezuma, shaka etc it would really help the game. the average civilization player does not know who Sayyida is, nor do they want to play as her. Picking her instead of Hayreddin Barbarossa is just a total bozo move. just add historic, authentic cool characters. its not that hard.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Your leader suggestions would have felt off in this pack imho. The best "Ottoman" leader would have been Barbarossa for Tides of Power. I assume he was considered, but Sayyida al Hurra proved to be an even better fit for the pack, especially teaming up with Teach.
if i got to pick the leaders for this expansion i would have done a Enrico Dandolo or Foscari plus Leif Erikson. they would both fit perfectly.
 
Considerin Byzantium isnt in the game yet, nor is Alexander the Great, i dont think they are following a roadmap based on historical importance when adding stuff to the game

I think that their thought process was more like: Pirates are popular, they have a higher chance to bring players back and an Ottoman leader
i reckon you are right. which is a shame. maybe that is part of why no one wants to play this stinker.
 
This one goes in the same bucket as “Civ 7 is objectively less historically accurate than Civ ??? and is therefore a bad game.” I don’t understand how some people see merit in pretending that their stance has some sort of objective basis when it’s clearly just a matter of opinion. Or maybe I’ve been living under a rock this whole time and missed the news that there’s now an objectively true tier list of civilizations that everybody needs to observe. What exactly is this argument? “The Ottomans are (allegedly) at the top of this list and the pirates aren’t.” I’m not really sure how this argument is easier to follow than why a pirate leader would be a good fit in an update that focuses on naval gameplay.
i think they have gone overboard with the wildcard picks and the game would benefit from more fan favorites and staples. their is no true "tier list" but there certainly are civilizations that are more recognizable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: j51
just add historic, authentic cool characters. its not that hard.
They did. You don't have to like them, and you can prefer others, but uh yup that's what they did.

(true, "cool" is pretty subjective, and given that we're all nerdy enough about video games to be on a forum about them . . .)
 
Picking her instead of Hayreddin Barbarossa is just a total bozo move. but shes female so the agenda driven PC firaxis had to go that way. normal customers have time and again shown their fatigue with the DEI inclusions in the game. just add historic, authentic cool characters. its not that hard.
If they had chosen Barbarossa as the mediterranean pirate, I'm sure the other one would be Anne Bonny for the Caribbean one. :P

your saying they are saving them for later, but the problem with that is the game is basically dead as of right now. they need to add the fan favorites right NOW. i guarantee if they added a huge leader pack with alexander, montezuma, shaka etc it would really help the game.
I'm positive they are saving them for later, it's through expansions you can entice players to come back in larger numbers not individual DLC's. An expansion with a whole lot of the fan favorite civs, with a bunch of heavily requested leaders, with really ravamped mechanics is the home run they need, or yes, civ VII will fail. the pacemeal thematic DLC's we are getting are the little steps to provide extra content while fixing and improving the mess they released, last patch was the first one I felt they were turning the corner, if they keep it up and then announce an expansion, I think that's the way to do it, civ players would show up.

But those DLC's (and in this case free DLC) buy them some time to get the game in order, if they announce a whole bunch of favorite leaders and civs, but the game is still a mess, that wont save it.

all this to say, I'm fine being patient and letting them cook really cool **** for heavily requested civs and leaders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: j51
i think they have gone overboard with the wildcard picks and the game would benefit from more fan favorites and staples. their is no true "tier list" but there certainly are civilizations that are more recognizable.
If you’re implying that leaders need to show up in the game in the order of recognizability, I disagree, although I can see some value in taking recognizability into consideration. In fact, the devs may also agree with that to an extent since Sid Meier revealed that the design for the civs and leaders for the first game was largely inspired by what they saw in children’s books. If children can recognize how a civ or a leader is depicted in the game, the general gaming population should as well, and that’s a good thing because it means they don’t need to spend resources on the “lore” in order to explain what each civ/leader is about. I don’t know how much of that still applies to the series, but either way, I don’t think you have a strong case if you want to argue that the way Blackbeard is depicted in the game does not make some sort of recognizability threshold.

I’d even go as far as to argue that (under a context the devs might find relevant to what they do) Blackbeard is more recognizable than someone like Suleiman. Halloween’s around the corner, and I won’t be surprised if I see some kids dressed up as pirates in the next few days. Sure, most of them won’t be dressed up specifically as Blackbeard, but I would also be very surprised to see anyone walking around in an onion hat. If you showed children around where I live the Civ 7 Blackbeard and the Civ 6 Suleiman and asked the kids who they think each person is, I’d bet Blackbeard would draw far more accurate and enthusiastic responses (“He’s a pirate!”) than Suleiman. So, I’m not really sure how you can be so certain that there is this “ladder of recognizability” that you can just assume everyone will agree with you about.

If you were to argue that children’s perceptions are irrelevant in this context because most of them aren’t part of the fanbase you’re referring to, I would just say I’m a fan, and you clearly don’t speak for me. I’d much rather see brand new attempts than rehash of returning leaders and civs. Genghis Khan’s ability is almost identical to what it was in Civ 6. Am I supposed to appreciate that more than the addition of Blackbeard just because Genghis Khan is a more famous historical figure? You might, and that’s fine, but I doubt you’re persuading anyone who doesn’t already agree with you with that tiresome line of reasoning.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom