The Power of Spain

[fmlizard2]

Just found Krakatoa (+10 ) on turn 8 in my latest game. Settled it immediately, buying a settler with my 500 finder's bonus. Reached the Renaissance (Astronomy) in 700 BC! When Spain gets lucky, there is no better Civ.

Speaking of this, what direction would you all have taken this start? I was on a continent (Immortal level) with Persia massing heavily just south of me. I went Education / Astronomy beeline so I could build on my heavy start and meet the 4 civs on the other continent, but my lands have a lot of tundra and desert so I may be limited on how much I can ultimately create in my own area.

I'm wondering if I would have been better off going on a steel / gunpowder (Tercios) / rifle rush? Beelining Chivalry for Conquistadors?

 

[dexters]

Natural wonders placement are very hit/miss which is part of Spain's problem. I often see Krakatoa far off on the edge of the continental shelf, which means you need a city that's perched right at the edge to get the bonus, and I recall a few times thinking "there's no way my borders can get to it " because it's so far out and true enough, I was never able to get it in my borders.

Others are in the middle of the desert.

 

[Arilian]

Natural wonders are very hit/miss which is part of Spain's problem. I often see Krakatoa far off on the edge of the continental shelf, which means you need a city that's perched right at the edge to get the bonus, and I recall a few times thinkin, there's no way my borders can get to it because it's so far out and I was never able to get it in my borders.

Others are in the middle of the desert.

Barrier reef is just sick. I like mutch more than El-Dorado.

+1000G and your first 2 field will be 4 food 2 prod 2 gold, 4 science.

I have tried play deity pangea games with all 10 NW set off (modified map script), it is really fun (ofc about one level lower than normally) because you have 1-2 NW garanteed nearby.

I also have a normal game with 3 NW (one is Eldorado) nearby.

 

[fmlizard2]

Natural wonders placement are very hit/miss which is part of Spain's problem. I often see Krakatoa far off on the edge of the continental shelf, which means you need a city that's perched right at the edge to get the bonus, and I recall a few times thinking "there's no way my borders can get to it " because it's so far out and true enough, I was never able to get it in my borders.

Others are in the middle of the desert.

Yeah, first time I have ever been able to work Krakatoa. And even here, it was off the coast of a tundra peninsula...though it did have 3 fish and 1 marble.

I concede you have to be lucky with Spain. Or at least it helps. But unique conundrums like this one outlined above are why they are the most fun Civ to play, IMO.

 

[Poomermon]

I don't like Spain. Like you others have said their UA is based purely on luck. Vast majority of games you will not find any of the natural wonders first or even nearby for settling making it a crappy ability. Still sometimes you will get an incredibly powerful start with nearby fountain of youth or almost any other natural wonder. Problem with that is that I feel like cheating if I continue playing after such a start as the game is almost automatically won at that point. So basically Spain can vary from hands down best civ to a crappy bottom feeder depending on the start. I don't like Spains UUs either so there is not much allure in that civ for me.

 

[Babri]

Maybe nerf gold bonus a bit but give them a NW start bias.

 

[qalsip1977]

I love the UA. I think the fact that it's VERY luck biased is PRECISELY what balances it. If it were more of a sure thing it would be ridiculously OP. I like Conquistadors but the other UUs are lame IMO. I enjoy playing them but only as a novelty, for something a little different, I wouldn't consider them a prime choice for my deity attempts...

 

[anandus]

Maybe nerf gold bonus a bit but give them a NW start bias.

Interesting thought.
It might be overpowerd, though. But I like the idea.

 

[vonbach]

Originally Posted by Babri
Maybe nerf gold bonus a bit but give them a NW start bias.

Interesting thought.
It might be overpowerd, though. But I like the idea.

The computer will set you down next to a Natural wonder some of the time.
When it does the computer plays very unfriendly toward you. Every time it
gives me wonder real close I'm at war pretty much from the start.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Maybe nerf gold bonus a bit but give them a NW start bias.

Start bias are not so good in the current implementation. Depending on other bias, there could be no NW nearby. The same as Rome with "Iron" bias sometimes starts without it.

 

[Babri]

Start bias are not so good in the current implementation. Depending on other bias, there could be no NW nearby. The same as Rome with "Iron" bias sometimes starts without it.

Iroquois have forest bias so why not this. Also Rome was already buffed with cheap Legions so I don't think there is any need to boost them further.

 

[Ianwill93]

I love Spain's randomness! Sometimes you can have a completely OP game, other times you get a relatively plain civ. Of course Conquistadors are veeeeery nice too. Not only do you get a city conqueror, you get a settler/explorer!
I love getting a NW in my borders from the beginning because I can just steamroll from the start. FOY allows such great REXing for the beginning of the game that I generally make it a point to clear out all the civs on my Continent if I get it.
Every NW brings a different game with it.

 

[jtb1127]

Yeah, they can be horribly overpowered.

 

[Babri]

Yeah, they can be horribly overpowered.

Or horribly underpowered. That is why I proposed to add NW bias to make Spain a less random civ.

 

[Dreadnought]

Spain's UA is luck based, to be sure, but their UU's are some of the best in the game. Tercios gain a bonus against the only units that can counter them (mounted units), which is insane. Conquistadors are also a very unique unit with some sweet perks.

Overall, Spain has one of the best medieval/Renaissance eras of any civ.

 

[fmlizard2]

Spain's UA is luck based, to be sure, but their UU's are some of the best in the game. Tercios gain a bonus against the only units that can counter them (mounted units), which is insane. Conquistadors are also a very unique unit with some sweet perks.

Overall, Spain has one of the best medieval/Renaissance eras of any civ.

Yeah, a Conquistador rush is the poor man's Keshik or Mandekalu rush. Obviously, Conquistadors are not the equal of these units in terms of conquest, but they are a nice step up from the standard Knight because they have no vs. city penalty. In my most recent game I terrorized the (AI) Mongols and sacked Karakorum with a swarm of 6 Conquistadors. Keshiks are mighty weak if you can get your lances into them.

 

[svett89]

Spain is in my opinion always a pretty decent Civ, even when not having a lot of luck and finding any natural wonders first.

The +100 gold bonus for finding a wonder after another Civ is still nothing to sneeze at early game (roughly the equivalent of meeting three city states first) and both the Conquistador and the Tercio are excellent units. You can really dominate the Renessaince battlefield with these two units.

 

[Hasire]

I think conquistadors are better than mandekalu cav.

 

[Babri]

I think conquistadors are better than mandekalu cav.

Agreed. They are slightly weak against cities in comparison to Mandekalu but they have extra line of sight which can help significantly in warfare as well as exploration.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Iroquois have forest bias so why not this. Also Rome was already buffed with cheap Legions so I don't think there is any need to boost them further.

You probably don't understand the point. I just point out what bias not always work. England could start far from coast, etc. So even if Spain has NW bias, it will still be a gamble.