The purpose of "phony wars"

[Kool Keith]

In the COTMs I see many good players starting phony wars. What exactly is the goal with these? Is it simply to extort techs and/or gold? Usually this does not work for me. Is there another reason I have not thought of?

 

[TheOverseer714]

I have seen quite a few instances where a war can give so-called war happiness for awhile, even under a Republic. A war with no battles or lost units can be useful. Getting tech and cities is rare in a phony war, but it can happen. Another use is to start one on another continent, getting a big war going over there can slow the AI's tech to a crawl or get them to quit building a wonder to focus on survival.

 

[Norton II]

Another use is to start one on another continent, getting a big war going over there can slow the AI's tech to a crawl or get them to quit building a wonder to focus on survival.

Slowing down the AI's a good reason to start a phony war, but good luck getting them to stop building a wonder. In an SG I was involved in recently, we had the Arabs down to three cities, and they were building wonders in two of them! I think that if the AI has enough shields invested in a wonder, it'll only switch if that wonder gets built or if it decides to build it in another city.

 

[btfx]

I also see a lot of good players getting BIG war settlements after doing very little damage, at least relative to my own games. Would you say that this happens only at higher difficulties (AIs produce more $ hence they surrender more $)?

 

[drakdan]

I don't know about them but when I start a phony war it's because:
1.) I want the tech pace slowed.
2.) I want a large and dangerous civ put down.
3.) I can benefit from mutual declarations of war.

 

[MadScotsMan]

I like taking down the big guy. Feels like the allies taking down the third reich

 

[Fanny Brice]

I think I know the general concept, but can you explain? What are conditions for doing this and how do you gain the benefit?

thanks

 

[Charles 22]

It does get rather tiring that the AI will do this to you wanting to team up against somebody you had not even considered warring against, and then after you join up your ally settles for peace and you are stuck being at war with somebody you really didn't care for warring against.

Does the AI ever stick to a war for up to 20 turns? I can't ever recall it happening. I do wonder if you do something tangible that first turn or two against the enemy civ, if your so-called ally would then decide that you are really into advancing the war and then not declare for peace. I doubt it.

Basically what this amounts to, is the AI is using you as leverage. He wants to transfer his original war onto you, and then of course you receive bad rep if you don't want to join up.

 

[Aceman101]

Umm, what exactly is a "phony war"?

 

[Quintillus]

Phony war - when two nations are at war, without a cease-fire, but no battles are being fought. World War II in the winter of 1939-1940 is probably the most common real-life example.

 

[Aceman101]

Ahh, thanks.

 

[Rising Star]

Not exactlly pertaining to the discussion, but I hilariously conquered the entire Turkish civilization once with a single warrior, as France, on the Test of Time mod. They declared on me, I was all set for a phony war, thinking I'd score a bit of cash or maybe a few techs out of it, when a warrior I had scouting the Far East stumbled accross a Turkish city unprotected on his way back to Europe. So I razed it, kept walking, found another one, razed it, then decided to actively search them out. The only city they'd protected was their own capital! And I managed to goad them into chasing me away from it, then doubled back and took it from behind! Easily the stupidest thing I've ever seen the AI do.

And I disagree with some of the people here who have stated that a phony war will cause a civ to stop its Wonder construction. I once had Scandinavia down to just Trondheim, surrounded by troops, bombarding the hell out of them, and the idiots still constructed the Pyramids. WTH?! What good was it to them? They already had a granary, and only one city. I've never known a civ to stop producing a wonder just because they're at war, phony or otherwise.

 

[Charles 22]

ANother thing about this game that people favor Civ4 for, and that is cannon/artillery use. True, I hadn't seen the AI use it the vast majority of the game, except in defense. Now at the end of the game there is only me and France. On one of the opening turns of the French offensive (they have like 3X the cities I do) they use artillery in a hex two away from my more outward oil resource, destroying it and the terrain improvements and causing the guarding unit to go to one point left. They had at least 20 of these artillery pieces and they were well guarded. That wasn't even the thrust of their attack.

I think this is the first time I have played Civ3 where it was only me and one other civ, and if not, then it's certainly the first time when they had dominated the board thoroughly before that time. Perhaps in taking so many defensive artillery over time, the AI with only one enemy will resort ot using them offensively too?

 

[PaperBeetle]

In the COTMs I see many good players starting phony wars. What exactly is the goal with these? Is it simply to extort techs and/or gold? Usually this does not work for me. Is there another reason I have not thought of?

Study klarius's spoilers carefully for descriptions of this. As well as using wars to slow down AI research, he is the master of the war-for-happiness.
The principle of a war-for-happiness is to get the AI to dow on you, which essentially works like an extra luxury. War happiness then decreases and becomes negative (i.e. turns to war weariness) according to factors like your government and the scale of your military losses etc... all detailed in the War Acadmey I'm sure. But if you never take any damage in the war, then you just keep the benefit of war happiness.
Now consider the situation of a continents map with few luxuries available locally. Lack of luxuries is putting the squeeze on your science slider, but you can't ship more over from the other continent until Navigation. So what you can do is turn that distance to your advantage, by getting some dows from civs over there, who can't possibly reach you.

 

[Taras Bulba]

sometimes i start "phony wars" just to kill the pesky AI units in my territory. I hate when then send all those units to explore my country... and when i say leave they won't, yet when i go in theirs, they won't let me stay at ALL, so i kill them

 

[Kool Keith]

Study klarius's spoilers carefully for descriptions of this. As well as using wars to slow down AI research, he is the master of the war-for-happiness.
The principle of a war-for-happiness is to get the AI to dow on you, which essentially works like an extra luxury. War happiness then decreases and becomes negative (i.e. turns to war weariness) according to factors like your government and the scale of your military losses etc... all detailed in the War Acadmey I'm sure. But if you never take any damage in the war, then you just keep the benefit of war happiness.
Now consider the situation of a continents map with few luxuries available locally. Lack of luxuries is putting the squeeze on your science slider, but you can't ship more over from the other continent until Navigation. So what you can do is turn that distance to your advantage, by getting some dows from civs over there, who can't possibly reach you.

Thanks.

 

[Rising Star]

sometimes i start "phony wars" just to kill the pesky AI units in my territory. I hate when then send all those units to explore my country... and when i say leave they won't, yet when i go in theirs, they won't let me stay at ALL, so i kill them

I tend to do that too, but only if they're actually a threat to something. For example, I had an English galley exploring my continent's coastline yesterday, and at the top end of my continent there's a formerly Greek large island, which I'd conquered, but hadn't finished resettling yet. Conceivably, the English galley, who was likely carrying settlers, could have dumped some of them on that island, not only destroying my territorial homogeniety, but also potentially wresking city placement. Since I didn't have any troops, aside from a few spearmen, on the island, and Elizabeth constantly told me she'd leave at once, only to stay in my territory, I destroyed the ship, then stationed several of my ships along the only route between our two continents. If her galley hadn't of been a potential threat, I likely wouldn't have bothered with it.

 

[Randy]

Sometimes your galley makes it way thru dangerous water routs to meet far away AI Civs. After some time and still before a safe route exists the AI will demand something. When you tell them no they then declare war on you. War happiness for many turns as the AI will not chance the open waters.

So at this point just keep all units out of the land of the AI you are at war with.

 

[Rising Star]

I do that on occasion, but I prefer not to risk my galleys at all. Great Lighthouse makes it possible though, without the risk.