The Pyramids - always go for them?

[oynaz]

Hi guys.

Thanks for your help with my Terra - Viking game. It really helped.

I want to discuss The Pyramids. On Prince, where I play, I always go for them. They are expensive, yes, but the ability to use Representation early is very valuable. On top of that, building the 'Mids more or less guarentee a great engineer, and thus another wonder free of charge.

Thoughts?

 

[madscientist]

Pyramids are very valuable and I go for them when appropriate (Industrious or have stone). Early representation is useful for +3 beakers per specialist and +3 Happy for the 6 largest cities. If you have religion, some happy resources such as elephants, silver, furs, gold and some calender techs you may not need the Happy (You'll get more than enough with HR at Monarchy). Also the other techs are not really needed until you get the freeing techs, HR comed from Monarchy which is early, Police State is not that important as WW is more of an issue later in teh game, and US loses half it's benefit until you ge ttownsa (better to wait for democracy on that one). SO you are spending alot of hammers on an early wonder to get representation. THe GE points are good but sometimes a GS, GP, or GM are better earlier. It also goes obsolete once you have all the civic techs.

I am not saying the pyramids are a bad choice, but it is not essential to get them and often enough I do not try at all.

 

[Indiansmoke]

If you can get them without compromising expansion + military too much then they are the most powerfull wonder in the game in my opinion.

 

[CivCorpse]

Anyone who has read a post of mine knows my answer> A resounding YES!!!
Build them and every other single wonder available.

 

[njorls]

My advice: pick and choose your wonders carefully. Don't 'always build' anything. If you have stone or are Industrious, and have enough food to run specialists, by all means build the Pyramids. But I compare slow building them, or any wonder, to buying 50 cents for a dollar. Sometimes it makes sense but I have a hard time convincing myself it's not better to build more settlers/workers/troops/anything else than those 'Mids.

 

[oynaz]

I did a quick take on the games in which I built the Pyramids. It turns out I was either Industrious, had stone, or was Creative (thus negating the need for Stonehenge), in every single one.

But in either of these cases, the Pyramids is a good build, especially if followed up by the Hanging Gardens in the same city for a Great Engineer factory.

 

[xanadux]

BTS, monarch and below I would say, you have time to wait to get math and chop the 'mids. Building the Pyramids doesn't mean sacrificing expansion. With a good production capital, you can settle 3 or 4 cities and get a library up in one of those cities for a couple scientists to help with math, then chop them with the 50% bonus. Chopping the Pyramids after math is just as good as being industrious and chopping them before math (as far as the hammers you get from the chops). Representation isn't a huge help until about this time anyway, so the delay doesn't hurt.

 

[JBossch]

Do you know how many axes you can build for the cost of pyramids? I haven't done the math but I'm guessing a crap ton.

 

[madscientist]

Do you know how many axes you can build for the cost of pyramids? I haven't done the math but I'm guessing a crap ton.

And ton of axes cost a ton of gold to support early on, plus ar edisposable. The effects of the pyramids are fixed and lasts a long time, longer than any axeman.

 

[Civfan333]

Yeah. Unless you're going for a cultural victory, you should only build wonders that's bonus's you need. The Pyramids are always a need.

 

[zenspiderz]

If I am running a SE and I have early access to stone it is worth going for. CEs shouldn't ever bother with them; they are just not useful enough to be worth the cost. And without stone they probably cost more than they are worth even for a SE. Running an SE but don't have stone? It will probably better to bee-line constitution instead.

 

[oyzar]

I almost never build this wonder. Unless i have stone and is isolated or something.

 

[DragonHawk]

I just rarely build any wonder in early stages of the game. I like confiscating them more than building them anyway

 

[Monkeyfinger]

The Pyramids opens up:
Representation: Research bonus attached to a style of economy I almost never use, and a happiness bonus that can easily be matched by hereditary rule, an easy civic to get without the aid of the pyramids.
Universal Suffrage: Enables rush buying that you don't have the gold for early, and beefs up your then-nonexistent towns.
Police state: .....lol. Just..... lol.

Screw the pyramids. The great wall costs half as much and is so much better.

 

[Kesshi]

Hi guys.

Thanks for your help with my Terra - Viking game. It really helped.

I want to discuss The Pyramids. On Prince, where I play, I always go for them. They are expensive, yes, but the ability to use Representation early is very valuable. On top of that, building the 'Mids more or less guarentee a great engineer, and thus another wonder free of charge.

Thoughts?

Hello oynaz,

If I were to build the pyramids, I would first ask myself WHY would I want to build it? Not to be a Negative Nancy, but if I can't figure out a few good reasons to build a wonder, I usually won't bother with it. Even if I'm playing a (hopefully) peaceful game where my winning goal is a culture, diplomatic, or spaceship victory. (Targeting a peaceful win usually means I cannot charge in and take it from whomever built it.)

There are lots of great reasons to build the pyramids, but if I can't find enough good reasons to justify my hammers, I'll leave it to someone else.

Good reasons to build the pyramids:

I have lots of river tiles which can provide me with a great early specialist economy.
I don't want the enemy building it.*
I am planning a early military invasion and want police state**
I have stone in one of my city's BFC.

Also, in my opinion that great engineer would probably serve you better in the long run as an attachment to your city, not building another wonder. Great Engineers are a very welcome addition to a specialist economy.

*This is true for a lot of wonders, not just the pyramids.

**This can be useful early game used in conjunction with spiritual and slavery. Convert, whip military in all cities for 5-10 turns, swap back.

 

[tycoonist]

And ton of axes cost a ton of gold to support early on, plus ar edisposable. The effects of the pyramids are fixed and lasts a long time, longer than any axeman.

yeah, but a captured empire can provide a lot of great effects form an even longer time.

pyramids are only worth it if you either have stone, are industrious or if you are philosophical and are planning on running a SE.

 

[CivCorpse]

blah blah blah. build them. then build another wonder, then a third one....the restart cuz you have one archer and 2 warriors when monty invades....build them in your new game too. OK, enough of that, time for me to go build the Mids in losing effort # 78565456

 

[Morgrad]

If: (going to run SE) and (have stone or industrious or tons of forests to chop) and (do not have to forgo conquering another civ to build them)
then: build pyramids
else: don't

 

[illram]

Hi guys.

Thanks for your help with my Terra - Viking game. It really helped.

I want to discuss The Pyramids. On Prince, where I play, I always go for them. They are expensive, yes, but the ability to use Representation early is very valuable. On top of that, building the 'Mids more or less guarentee a great engineer, and thus another wonder free of charge.

Thoughts?

The only thing that is always true in civ 4 is never say always and never.

 

[The-Hawk]

Build pyramids? Almost never... Maybe if I pop a GE and it hasn't already been built. Slows you down from the mission at hand (whatever that may be).