The remaining Civ

What will the remaining civ be?

  • The Sioux

    Votes: 21 8.6%
  • The Poles

    Votes: 16 6.5%
  • The Hungarians

    Votes: 13 5.3%
  • The Mali

    Votes: 12 4.9%
  • The Ethiopes

    Votes: 15 6.1%
  • The Nigerians

    Votes: 7 2.9%
  • The Israelis

    Votes: 55 22.4%
  • The Tibetans

    Votes: 4 1.6%
  • The Khmers

    Votes: 14 5.7%
  • The Indonesians

    Votes: 6 2.4%
  • The Siamese

    Votes: 6 2.4%
  • The Aborigenees

    Votes: 10 4.1%
  • The Polynesians

    Votes: 41 16.7%
  • Other (Specify)

    Votes: 25 10.2%

  • Total voters
    245
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And, think of the corruption caused by having one city on Easter Island and another in Madagascar.
I think you people are a bit wrong to think of Olynesians as one civ, they're a cultural group.
If you had a civ called the "Europeans" that wouldn't be seen as accurate. Having a civ called the "Polynesians is just as inaccurate. Maori are very different from Samoans who are very different from Madagascans who are very different from Easter Islanders who are very different from Hawaiians etc.
It just isn't accurate. Besides, the largest concentration of Polynesians up to about 1900 was 20,000 in New Zealand, that is spread out over an area the size of California, there just never were all that many Polynesians.
 
we have too many ancient civs with ancient UUs already.
I want to tell someone who I am playing as and have them actually understand it.
I would like it to be more of a game and less a history lesson.

My 7 I would have added (all modern but the huns)
Italians
Irish
Scotish
Polish
Canadians
Huns
Australians!
 
Hehe, this is such a fun thread. :D

I wish I could just say it and let everyone "oooo" and "ahhh" and be done with it, but that would be no fun. ;)
 
Originally posted by Furius
And, think of the corruption caused by having one city on Easter Island and another in Madagascar.
I think you people are a bit wrong to think of Olynesians as one civ, they're a cultural group.
If you had a civ called the "Europeans" that wouldn't be seen as accurate. Having a civ called the "Polynesians is just as inaccurate. Maori are very different from Samoans who are very different from Madagascans who are very different from Easter Islanders who are very different from Hawaiians etc.
It just isn't accurate. Besides, the largest concentration of Polynesians up to about 1900 was 20,000 in New Zealand, that is spread out over an area the size of California, there just never were all that many Polynesians.

Yes but the arabs are in (representing many nations) why not the Polynesians. ;)
 
Originally posted by Coorae

My 7 I would have added (all modern but the huns)
Italians
Irish
Scotish
Polish
Canadians
Huns
Australians!

Italians - We have the romans ( MOD it )
Irish - We have the celts (their last cities were in Ireland)
Scotish - We don't have them ( Why should we have them ??
We have England in GB. You want to more civs for those little islands :confused:

Polish & Canadians - Agree :goodjob:

Huns - We have them .... as barbarians ;)

Australians - Would be cool
 
Where would you guys put canada?!
Irqouious is canada in the game. or as you say MOD it!

You people don't need to think only historicaly, you need to think about the world map.
Do you think we need another country near usa and iroqious?
Maybe we need more in asia? AFRICA? Oceinaia (that have none)?
 
Who says that every spot on earth needs filled from turn 1? People want a civ for Australia, well, there were no civs in Australia until the English started settling it!! Would it be so terrible to have a situation like that in the game?

The world map shouldn't go into consideration at all when creating a civ. You can't play a realistic game on it anyway, and few people do. It should be based on the merits of the civilization. Africa should be sparsely populated, with only 2 or three civs. Europe should be packed.
 
Agree, thestonesfan. I don't understand why some posters don't want to give another european or middle-eastern civ (even the greatest) a chance only because these regions are "already too crowded".
 
I feel like someone should just tout the Byzantine Empire in proxy for Xen... It's just not the same w/o him...

edit: ha! No. 100! :D
 
I simply don't want all euro civs, because I like a bit of diversity and "What If?" Civilization is marketed as changing the course of history, yet if I am forced to play as only Euro or historically dominating nations, what is the point?

Certainly, a majority of the player options should be nations known for historical influence. Yet I feel that there should also be some cultural groups to play. Me? I would find it great to have a seafaring Polynesian group end up dominating the world. I enjoy playing my modded Zawditsu of Ethiopia, and the thought of a black female's empire dominating the planet.

Those kinds of crazy "what if?" scenarios are lost when I'm re-enacting the Dutch and British fighting for naval superiority. It's boring to throw in all of the Euro seafaring colonial powers. To me, it's dull to sit in the rigid confines of history, where I now have 2 new Middle Eastern civs, when I could do with possibly one: Israel. I like regional diversity. I like the Khmer and Polynesia, Ethiopia and Mali, Australia and Canada. They add dynamic -- differentiaton. Play the World greatly enhanced this by adding two Asia Minor/Arabic civs, two Asian civs, and two generally distinct Euro civs. The only ones I didn't particularly feel "fit" the game were the Celts and Carthage, yet they still add that distinct flavor.

Yet out of Conquests, the only Civs I feel that have some true distinction are the Inca and the Dutch. Sumer and the Hittites, while historically important, lack that distinct characteristic that identifies it from Babylon. Portugal -- another seafaring power -- is eclipsed by the more identifiable Spain. The only one that toes the line -- the Maya -- I feel is seen as too akin to the Aztecs, even though I am familiar with their differences.

The point is this: historical merit, or distinct gameplay?

Players understand what makes England, Russia, Germany, France, Spain, and the Vikings very distinct entities. They understand Classical civilizations such as Rome, Greece, and the Ancient Egypt. They familiarize with groups such as Aztecs, Native Americans, and Black Africans. China, Korea, and Japan are distinct and approachable Asian powers, Monoglia is a category all its own, and surely we know of the unqiue Ottoman Turks and the tribes of Arabia.

Civ3 Conquests blurs those lines. Aside from minutiae (of which I could provide for almost any civilization), what is so distinctive about the Hittites or Sumer? What makes Portugal so different from Spain? In a toss-up between the Khmer or the Maya, which is ultimately more distinct and under-represented?

You have the option of "equalizing" all of the Civs by disregarding the unique features -- so what is left? Name recognition, plain and simple. And with name recognition should come the wild-card of playing from as many distinct regions as possible. This isn't a recreation of history, it is fiction -- and I think that Firaxis lost that with their latest selection of playable civilizations.
 
Hittites are very different to other Middle Easter civs, they're similar to Scythians (which probably makes the European, which is even worse). Also, I believe that the Conquests expansion is all about historical accuracy, that is what the scenarios are about, isn't it?
@Nalves: I thought the Arabs were Saudi Arabia. Certainly, Ab Bakr ruled right after Mohammed when the Islamic area was not small.
 
hehm my predictions have been coming totally correct :) I said the dutch and portugese would be in this.
 
IMHO, i believe that Phoenicians should be the civ to be added.
They discovered the Alphabet, were one of the most important commercial civs in history, established Carthage and several other cities throughout the mediterranean coast, and even arrived to America long before Columbus.
They were of course conquered by the Greek and later by several other civs.

Edit: Not to forget the famous Cedars...

BTW, here are links i got from GameSpy site.


Link 1

Link 2
 
As far as I know, the evidence of the Phoenicians reaching the Americas is circumstnatial at best (even if I personally believe that they were here)... Besides -- by including Carthage, Phoenicia is included, by means of its "offspring." If people are arguing about the differences between the east and west Roman empires, then the difference between Carthage and Phoenicia would also be disputed...
 
The Phoenicians were of course conquered by the Persians and then the Macedonians. If they did invent that alphabet, then that goes a long way to meritung a place. I think they should probably replace but include the Carthaginians.

However, saying "Besides -- by including Carthage, Phoenicia is included" is worse than saying England shouldn't be in because "by including America, England is included". It's worse because many more centuries separate America under English rule to America now than Carthage under Phoenician rule to the age of Hannibal. Perhaps that parallel should be considered before we are too hasty in saying that kind of thing ;)
 
Note: I didn't intend to say I personally had a problem, I merely pointed out that there have been difficulties w/ people recognizing the difference between parent and daughter civilizations in this thread before -- just go back a couple of pages. Also, aside from the Companions, many of Alexander's units had Greeks in them... The Macedonians of the fourth century BC had much more in common with the Greeks than the Macedonians do today.

Another rebuttal (not one I'm sure I agree with, but something to consider): Alexander sacked Tyre around 332 BC. The first Punic War was in 264 BC, and Carthage was all but defeated by 201 BC (although it wasn't destroyed until 146 BC) -- from 332 BC to 201 BC was 131 years. Look at this comparison: say the Free French set up government in Algeria following the fall of France in 1940. Germany ends the war earlier, and retains possession of Western Europe. Fifty years later (events happen more rapidly in the modern era than in the ancient era -- hence 50 years instead of 131), the Germans go on the rampage again, and wipe out the French in Algeria, who had made their own, "New France." Should this "New France" and the original France be viewed as equals? An intriguing dilemma.
 
Well, Alexander's army had Greek allied contingents as well as allied contigents from almost everywhere else in the Balkan region. You'd be better just saying that the Macedonians were Greeks than that their army included Greeks. ;)

It's just a wee bit unfair to the Macedonians to say that the Greeks conquered the Persian Empire when the Greeks themselves always insisted that the Macedonians weren't Greek.

NB: According to Timaeus, Carthage was founded in the year 814/13 BC, and was destoyed, as you say, in 146BC. That's 668 years (if my counting is accurate :) )
 
Originally posted by calgacus
NB: According to Timaeus, Carthage was founded in the year 814/13 BC, and was destoyed, as you say, in 146BC. That's 668 years (if my counting is accurate :) )

True, but Jamestown was founded in 160(3?), but the colonies didn't even begin to think of the stirrings of independence until at the earliest 1765, in fact, many of the members of the various Continental Congresses in the 1770s still thought of themselves as Englishmen. The question we are debating is when do colonies/farflung cities become entities in their own right. When Carthage was founded, it was still Phoenician. When did it become individual, and separate from them? I don't know...

Again, I was not one of the people who said that the Byzantines were the same as the Romans (nor the Carthaginians the same as the Phoenicians) -- I'm just interested in deciding when such divisions occur, if they do.
 
Yes but, neither the US or Britian are so clearly ahead of the other in terms of historical accomplishments. One dominated the modern age, and a great deal of the industrial revolution, the other has had a very long and glorious history. On the other hand, Carthage from what I know was far more powerful than Phoenicia ever was.

Also, could one of the TESTERS PLEASE tell us if our arguements are anywhere near the right track???
 
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