The Samurai rush...

[Hauptman]

In civ 4, whenever I was feeling ornery, or the AI just annoyed me I'd start up a Tokugawa game to vent my frustrations. I really loved a good old fashioned Samurai Rush.

However, this game has a problem... Samurai placement on the tree.

It doesnt look that bad on paper. 4 techs and boom, insta carnage... however... you cant just beeline it and not be facing muskets by the time you get there due to research times early game.

I did it via worldbuilder... Just went ahead and planted Yoze-might right above my start position. That got me the research needed to power through and still be facing archers/warriors by the time I built one and got him to the offending civ.

Is there a less 'cheaty' way though?

One thing I'm considering, actually researching bronze working, getting the spearman kill plus an encampment, getting a religion and chopping out the 3 districts for mathematics... but, the build times even with chops is horrendous. And cant quite get them done before I could hard research it.

One thing I did finally see was the light cavalry promotion tree yesterday. IF (big if) I could get a couple light cavalry to level 2, I think you could power the research via pillaging. That is if there are enough built mines on the map... Something that really seems to lag in the AI priorities.

Has anyone managed to figure out a way to make this work that doesnt require I just outright cheat? I really need this.

 

[Hauptman]

Had to reload my victory save (culture of course) to see exactly what I had done, since it was a few games ago... but man oh so much 'cheat'.

I gave myeself Yosemite, and gave Jerusalem Tsingy who I conquered as soon as I had a pantheon, whilst I build Stonehenge. That iron mine right in the center of Yosemite is just a beautiful thing. So much research.

I then ate my two most hated civs, Nubia and Khmer. I had taken reliqueries, and poor USA had a relic in their inventory, so I beat him up for it before attacking Khmer, who ended up being a PITA because the terrain was 2 tiles wide and gave me no room for a fast blitz.

 

[Art Morte]

...or how about just making an archer rush, since it works and requires minimal research? x)

My favourite unit to beeline for is Brasil's Minas-whatever, the battleship. Get some Theater districts up and you'll get Nationalism and therefore the Minases pretty soon and then you can do whatever you like within three tiles from coast since battleships are just silly OP against the AI who cannot handle their range and strength.

 

[Hauptman]

Yeh ships are OP. My army collects dust as soon as I get the venetian arsenal online and get those frigates out with the admiral who will armada them for me. Toss in the fleeted ironclads (because you did get EVERY admiral in the game right? Mausoleum of Halicanarsis OP!) and the world is yours for the taking on island plates or fractal. Continents or pangea, not so much.

They usually go art hunting which finally gets my culture up to speed. The greeks always leave so much art lying around just begging to be pillaged.

 

[Duuk]

Beelining doesn't seem to work as well. Make sure you head out and kill barbs like crazy and pop builders. You need those inspirations. Burn your faith popping great people until it's not price advantageous.

I'm still a nub at Civ6, but I've definitely noticed that beelining is a bear.

 

[Hauptman]

By the way the archer rush is just so pase.... it's like what you do as Germany...

UU rushes add so much flavor. But alas, this game kills the Samurai rush unless everything is perfect. Looks like Rome is the go-to beat people up civ in this game. He was horrible in civ 4 because they happened to early, conquering so much with ironworking in that game would kill your research because you coudlnt afford all the cities. But bureaucracy gave you enough time to get a couple religions and prophets so you could fund mad expansion as Japan. And all those first strikes made the samurai unstoppable even against other civs who had macemen.

 

[liv]

Yes samurai ruches unfortunatly do not work well. They are costly units
That is too bad really
You can rush some other uniques like warcarts, Macedonian units, persian units, Scyntia's horse units, astec units
I like nubia rushes

 

[Hauptman]

I did give Aztec a go right after this Japan game... and wow... just wow.

His warriors were stronger than AI swords... cant imagine the power if I actually upgraded them!~ But I wanted those free workers.
Aztecs are incredible... but they pretty much force a super early rush... and there are like wonders I want to build and religions I want to found. I'll give him another go and just hope to conquer my way into religion... but a warrior rush will happen before they even get the shrines up! So I dont know... might just have to live without religion for those insane military buffs.

 

[Tech Osen]

Finished a game with Japan yesterday, and the very turn that I made a cultural victory I realized I hadn't researched military tactics...

 

[Victoria]

Beelining doesn't seem to work as well.

Well you sort of beeline knights via an archer rush for a very powerful attack. Ad a GG and it’s GG.

 

[Abraxis]

I suggest just re-writing whatever in your head says it's okay to use worldbuilder to give yourself wonders, resources, and city states in order to rush Samurai -instead of just using it to spawn yourself a horde of Samurai.

As far as rushing them normally, push out early science districts, and don't be OCD about researching tangential techs for Eurekas, and you should get there in time without cheating. Expand slowly or at another's expense, so you have cities populous and developed enough to build Samurai in reasonable time. -Like, why do you want Stonehenge if you're trying to rush Samurai? Something like that will have cost you the first great scientist, and a ton of science, and like 40 turns of Samurai running around being Samurai.

Hypatia, Euclid, and Aryabhata could all help you get to Samurai quicker. Build Science districts ASAP and then build Encampment(s) in your best production city with Barracks before Samurai tech is available. Focus the rest of your hammers on developing those cities to be as strong as they can be when you get to Samurai.

 

[Hauptman]

I suggest just re-writing whatever in your head says it's okay to use worldbuilder to give yourself wonders, resources, and city states in order to rush Samurai -instead of just using it to spawn yourself a horde of Samurai.

As far as rushing them normally, push out early science districts, and don't be OCD about researching tangential techs for Eurekas, and you should get there in time without cheating. Expand slowly or at another's expense, so you have cities populous and developed enough to build Samurai in reasonable time. -Like, why do you want Stonehenge if you're trying to rush Samurai? Something like that will have cost you the first great scientist, and a ton of science, and like 40 turns of Samurai running around being Samurai.

Hypatia, Euclid, and Aryabhata could all help you get to Samurai quicker. Build Science districts ASAP and then build Encampment(s) in your best production city with Barracks before Samurai tech is available. Focus the rest of your hammers on developing those cities to be as strong as they can be when you get to Samurai.

Hahaha.... Just WBing in the units is so, well... easier. BUT....

I gave it a couple of go's and just cant get it to work without Yosemite. Just cant... it takes too long... =(

If I used the archers to start expanding, it defeats the entire purpose... but it might be neccessary. I mean they did just sit around and do nothing for 130 turns.

I think I'm just trying too hard to recreate Civ 4. Where due to mechanics, you simply couldnt grow and still research at a decent pace... until you got some religions under your belt, which you'd get on your way to samurai.

So I did it again, gave myself yoza-might, and here is the result: Respectable time frame for the carnage to start. 130 turns on marathon I am happy with.

By the way, I refuse to play a game with Blue city states on the map... Research is already too fast. I even squash the pink ones too.... I need to find a mod that doubles research times and halves eurekas for me to feel comfortable with a nice long game, and have it balance out... suppose I could mod it myself... As it stands, research and build times are just FUBARed right up. Especially late game. Build 3 biplanes? I havent even gotten an airport yet!

 

[Hauptman]

By the way I did still get the first scientist... and a bunch of eurekas didnt help much.