1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

The Sinister Scheme of Dr. Fu Manchu

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Cam_H, May 9, 2011.

  1. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    18,684
    FR - The reason for moving the warrior onto the forested plains hill is simply that him moving any other direction provides little to no information that benefits us. And actually we have a pretty good idea what lies to the south at least tile wise and it ain't pretty. He should reveal quite a few tiles to the west and north of that position.

    In a succession game, generally what we do is move the warrior or scout to the position we designate...stop...post a screenshot...the team then reviews the new information to determine if and where to move settler. In this case, if the warrior does not reveal anything that changes our idea of moving the settler east onto the plains hill then the first player will proceed with that move...stop...post a screen...the team then reviews the new information and discusses whether to settle on the new spot or move the settler again, and discuss tech path.
     
  2. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Sofia
    That sounds pretty cool. I can work with the save only in the evening, though. So,
    iiuc, it is expected to have a move with the warrior onto the grass hill to the West, or 1NW, iirc, and then move the settler onto the PH - or even only 1NE - and we discuss what we see, if anything.

    I appreciate also the explanation in the previuos longer post of yours regarding the turn gain/recoup following settling on the ph.
     
  3. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    18,684
    iiuc :confused:

    FR - Until we get used to your Bulgarian acro-speak, you might need to spell it out for the first time. I think I know what lol stands for :lol:
     
  4. woopdeedoo

    woopdeedoo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    743
    Location:
    The land of Derp
    HAHA! Shame man, i think it's just a typo!

    [edit] if I understand correctly(???) [/edit]
     
  5. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Sofia
    Exactly, madam. And not exactly a BG acronym...but maybe too hard to decipher, indeed!
     
  6. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Sofia
    Below is the screenshot. Nice to see we can expand - or get attacked - from the West, too. I would go for the ph. Will wait a couple of hours, more if less than half of you endorses this.
     
  7. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Messages:
    6,437
    Location:
    Czech Rep.
    I am affraid I don't see any image... something went wrong.
     
  8. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Sofia
    Sorry, no matter what I do, I can't get the image from the bucket onto the post. Here's the save. Well, somehow I did manage to ger a thumbnail into the post.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Sofia
    I hope you can see the picture...I do.

    As there are no opinions and ideas whatsoever, i'd just wait for an hour or so, then move the settler to the ph, then post.
     
  10. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Messages:
    6,437
    Location:
    Czech Rep.
    yep the land to west is crap.
     
  11. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Sofia
    Oh, just take a look at the land - land?!?!? - to the East...:cry: And as it is time to get some ideas about whether to settle or continue wandering, I am leaving it for your consideration till tomorrow evening (I might drop a word or two by then, although I find myself somewhat speechless right now:D).

    I'd settle. If we have a chance - I guess no, as there would have been a computer indication that this is a nice place to settle - we'll get Cu or Fe. Otherwise, farms in the stead of cottages. The good news is that the capital will be balanced in food and hammers, the bad news is that it will be too balanced - from what we see now.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Messages:
    6,437
    Location:
    Czech Rep.
    lol...now that is something...

    This spot sucks like hell btw... 3 desert hills (only 3 hammers) and the amount of unhealth (soo many FP's) will make this spot completely unsuitable...

    just wow :). Can you post the save? maybe some lurk to the northern PH is granted, from the SS I can't see what is there in fog.

    One thing is clear though... Agri-->Pottery.

    I am interested to hear from Lymond and Cam what they have to say... didn't saw something like that in BtS...
     
  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    18,684
    Well, the biggest issue is the total lack of true resources and, of course, health. I'm not too worried about the desert hills - it is still production and there appears to be a PH to the north. Looks like there is a couple of forest to the East to alleviate some health. Eventually this could turn out to be a decent FIN cap. However, the problem is that the low initial food/production and bad health will make settler production slow. We may need to start a settler at size 2 or 3 before the health gets bad to get him out and settle some resources.

    As for continued settler scouting, the problem is there is nothing glaring that indicates a good city to start with. We might move around forever.

    Another option is to settle 2 or 3 south to bring the cows back into play. However, at this point, I'm inclined to SIP and just deal with it for now. Early Pottery would indeed be good to make this city decent, but we should farm a flood plain or two at first to boost settler/worker production.
     
  14. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Messages:
    6,437
    Location:
    Czech Rep.
    i was thinking on the granary too. If I am not much mistaken we could actually be at 0 health at size 2 from all those FP's after 1st border pop.

    I once had something like this as start and remember this to be very tough to operate with...
     
  15. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    18,684
    Granary doesn't do much unless you have the resources to give bonus. If we settle the cows site next, it can take on some of the flood plains and help grow cottages.
     
  16. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,047
    Location:
    "Straya"
    For lack of greater inspiration ...



    ... with a view to the 'blue area' on the southern Desert Hill as "The Evil Lair". Essentially an effort to split up the Floodplains and the Hills across several cities.
     
  17. woopdeedoo

    woopdeedoo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    743
    Location:
    The land of Derp
    Wow, what a crappy roll! Personally, I would settle blue. Although it is a bit of a walk, so far it seems like the best spot for me. Plus, we don't know what is in the fog. Although, with the luck we had so far, it's probably desert :sad:
     
  18. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2002
    Messages:
    6,437
    Location:
    Czech Rep.
    I think we should just settle at the spot we are right now.

    I like Cam's splitting of FP's, which will be badly needed and it will be good for instant trade routes due to culture touching and rivers.

    I am the meaning we could even go with the early game with:

    1) tech Aggri and TW while building worker
    2) improve 1 FP to farm with worker, tech pottery
    3) grow into size 2 on warrior, lay some cottage
    4) at size 2 build settler, maybe even 2 settlers and settle the FP's around. The capital will not grow anytime soon to size 3

    things to check :). How long at size 2 with 1 FP farm and 1 FP cottage for 1 settler (could it be 4+3+2-4 = 5 ~ 20T for settler?), +3F means 7-8T for grow to size 2 (will be probably 7T due to finishing the farm around T21), overall T 42 first settler?

    How long till "serious" barbs on Monarch.

    New cities should produce warriors of course. It's a bit risky tactic if it was on Imm+ (due to soonish barbs)

    edit:

    oops the calculations are wrong ;-) like completely

    1) we get the worker at T12 (PH bonus), farm due in T18
    2) the production into settler will be 4F+3F+2F+2H-4F = 7 ~ 15T

    meaning we can look at settler from size 2 around T 34.
     
  19. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Sofia
    I'd also consider settling in the place we are now on. Going to the three of the places indicated by Cam is associated with too much of risk as less than 2/3 of the tiles can be seen, as of now. The one NW is nothing very promising, but seems at least plausible, and the settlement can take place on the 2nd turn.
    The hill to the South (I don't see the "blue area" but assume that that's the place referred to by Cam and W) can be settled only on the 3rd turn, and with all the unknown tiles around it - although, most probably, there won't be more than a couple of tiles with 0 or one food - I personally prefer to SIP, meaning the ph where we are now (SIPaon - settling in place as of now). With so many flood plains around we can definitely farm more than 1 fp - I kind of prefer to cottage the grassland and farm the fp, than the other way round, but am open to follow the expert advice - and grow a bit more than level 2 - to L3 maybe?!:lol: In the case of farming a seconf fp first, we'll also get the settler 2 or even 3 turns earlier, it seems - even if we don't get the chance of an L3 cap.
    I think that SIPaon means also reconsidering the placement of other towns - I see the NE one moved 1E, and the S one moved further to the South, but this is something to discuss upon agreement about settling vs moving further.
    As of now, we are facing also the issue of popping or not-popping the hut with the warrior. So early in the game the Lord of AIs seems to allow for positive outcomes - as far as I can tell from my personal experience. It also doesn't seem to matter whether we are settled or not with regard to chances of getting gold or a unit, I am not so sure about tech. I am willing to risk it right away - if another unit comes up, or a decent tech, that looks like helpful. Then move warrior counter-clockwise. What do you think about this?
     
  20. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    4,047
    Location:
    "Straya"
    My 2 cents;

    (a.) You won't pop a Barbarian from the Hut: Goody Huts' Mechanics if we don't settle a city ... or ... settle within 8 tiles of the hut and then pop it. We can't receive a free technology from the Hut if we haven't founded a city.

    (b.) It's the end of the day, and I can't probably count, but there are more Floodplain tiles on the spot you have now (as a BFC) [12] than the original one you've walked away from [11].

    (c.) Splitting the Floodplains up in some manner will allow our citizens to breathe something other than Floodplain stench, and we get that 'super' Plains Cow tile if we settle in the blue zone.
     

Share This Page