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The Sinister Scheme of Dr. Fu Manchu

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Cam_H, May 9, 2011.

  1. woopdeedoo

    woopdeedoo Chieftain

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    I have to strongly agree with Cam on blue spot. There are also trees/forests which could really help us get out stuff we need once we get BW. Plus hill for :hammers: and FPs for farms. The alternative, imho, would be the (x?) spot to the NE. It looks like there could be some grass plains there and nice little hills for :hammers:.

    NB: I haven't looked at the save because I fear that I won't be able to stop myself from wandering around to see what happens so this is purely from the SS posted by Cam :D.
     
  2. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    To confess, it took me five turns to get this one ... I had double Grassland Gems + Rice, I had a double Gold + Pigs + Floodplains, I had a four seafood and Ivory ... it took me some time to get something so 'decidedly average'. :D
     
  3. woopdeedoo

    woopdeedoo Chieftain

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    :cry: WHY Cam, WHYYYY!?!?!?!?!? :cry:
     
  4. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    Because I'm Evil ... not so much as our protagonist ... but still ... :)

    Really ... all of those Floodplains ... hard to complain too much. ;)
     
  5. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

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    Thanks, Cam!
    So:
    a. pop the hut now, get gold or unit. Later: might trigger barbs (I don't expect that we'll be building scouts any soon) - nearer that the 8-mile rule. Are there any votes for running the risk of popping it AFTER settling? I am more than willing to consider this benevolently:D.

    b+c. Not so sure it was SUCH a bad idea, esp. when financial;):
    "6 FP gives you 2.4 :yuck: which is rounded down to 2 :yuck:. If you placed 6 cottages on those FP you would have +6 :food: which is more than enough to negate the 2 :yuck: . Likewise you could use any combination of tile improvements you wanted and easily make up for the :yuck:

    If you had 20 FP in your city that would be 8:yuck: but you would also have +20 :food: before improvements and when adjusted you still have +12 :food: surplus. Don't worry about as long as you have the :food: surplus to counter it."
    (Crusher 1, post #8 @ http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=317759)

    I guess it's the desert hills to bother about, not the 12 fp. Actually, not even this but the lack of a 'real good' foor resource to get us going, something like rice and pigs (hint! hint!). It's the dynamics that gets hurt: the more theFPs, the slower is the initial development. We might be having something like a non-surplus-food economy till we get the first farm on. There's a bit of hope there, as we are by the river, and there seem to be 2 forests in the fat cross = 2+1 health. Will it be enough? I need to check what is the stating health on Monarch. And this will definitely be a slow growing capital - if on the SIPaon. Will it be much different if we go to another place may be if we return to the initial SIP. Not likely, if the SE and S ("blue") dots don't have an abundant food resource in their fat crosses.

    It should be added, it seems, that the city on the FPs will not be a great production city till farms get the additional 1f.

    IN VIEW of this I think we need some more time to reflect. With your kind permission, I won't move till we have 4 votes in favor of either the SIPaon, or of moving, and at least three of those - in favor of a specific direction to move into.

    PLEASE, DISREGARD the rest of the post: actually, I'm deleting it.
     
  6. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

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    Let me also place an idea about the tech research sequence (IF SIPaon):

    Agri -> TW -> Pot -> BW

    This will let the whip start earlier, and it might be needed where there is little hammers. And might bring in axes while skipping the archers. And might, just might, get a real big-hammer hill in the fat cross.

    As to the workers temporary occupation: farm-farm-(farm)-mine/road (if it is clear to where) ... - cottage/farm as needed (anybody willing to do the counting and fine-tuning?!:mischief:)

    NB! (Nota bene!): This is strictly tied to SIPaon.

    In the previous version of the post I was actually proposing to get BW before TW to be on the safe side with warrior production and to whip, but decided not to put too much - and half-baked - onto your plate...
     
  7. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    I trust your decision making ... your call now as far as I'm concerned.
     
  8. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

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    Thanks, Cam! I'd rather prefer to ponder over your own take on the situation - especially, that so much depends on this decision, but also appreciate the empowerment technique used! ;)

    So, this makes it 3 and 2 (please, refer to my two previous posts - and Cam's quote; thank you!):cool:

    Cam, I think CAN wait?!:confused:
     
  9. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

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    Hello!! ANYbody - except Cam!! A-hu-hu!!! It's 4 hours after my pathbreaking two posts, 16.5% of a whole 24-hour day-and-night! Almost 1/3 of a day!!! Do you read me, guys?! Mayday, mayday!!!!
     
  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    If we settle where we are now, the hut will not pop a barbarian unit. There is no RISK here. I think we should settle on the Plains hills and build a settler at size 2 for the blue spot. Then pop the hut.

    edit: I think we should go AG>AH>TW>Pot. The reason is that we want those cows hooked up pronto when the second city is settled. BW does not do us much good in this setup early since we have few forest and very little whip opportunity. Our hammers are not that bad really, but growth will be an issue which precludes whipping.
     
  11. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    You know, actually when I look at Cam's screen, there's another spot that really screams to me as a good cap and that is 1W on the FP. This would be a serious bureau cap and still leave the blue spot as a nice overlap city. It takes out an FP, but really there are plenty of FPs still. Plus, it pulls the cow into the BFC and has plenty of good hills for production, including a riverside grass hill. Yeah, we lose the initial PH bonus in the city center, but ultimately this is a better city in the long run from which to fuel or diabolical plans.

    Oh, and we can just let the city pop the hut.
     
  12. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

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    well I kind of prefer the stronger city tile (since we can probably be stuck on low size which then makes bigger impact)

    didn't do calculations, but I think the SIPao has less FP's? the health issue will be really big and we should not underestimate it.
     
  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Wow, the Czechies destroyed the US. Jagr with a hat trick. Looks like yall are definitely the team to beat.

    V, not sure I followed your last post. SIPao? Anyway, settling 1W has less FPs. If we get a settler out at pop 2 at grab the blue city things will shape up quick. 1W is a much stronger city.
     
  14. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    I woke up this morning hoping that this decision had been made ... but alas ... seeing that it hasn't, I'll go in and again pitch for splitting up the Floodplains among two or three cities that get the 'best of both worlds'; Floodplains with severely reduced unhealthiness.

    ... as opposed to one city hording pretty well all of the Floodplains and unable to make the most of them due to chronic unhealthiness.

    Nothing new here ... really just re-emphasis that by settling on a site with 10+ Floodplains really nullifies the value of the Floodplains themselves. Technically functional, but arguably sub-optimal. I'd prefer two or three cities that make good use of the Floodplains.

    'Yes' - there are a lot of unknown tiles in fog-of-war, but it's a risk I can live with, as the alternative isn't too exciting either.
     
  15. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

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    Ok, as it seems that we'll never get to agree on the place of settlement, I decided to move to the blue region and settle on the spot indicated on Cam's map. The main reasons: more potential for growth and - maybe -production, early cows=less unhealth; no time for more wandering about.

    P'yongyang is up: worker in 15t. Agri is up (in 9t). Two new huts around, one will be popped by culture.

    As I need to go to work, I'm posting the save and a couple of thumbnails below. I'll continue playing in the evening.

    I am going along the initial V tech plan with a switch between AH and TW (to get the cows hooked faster): Ag-TW-AH-Pott. I am also going along V's initial production plan: warriors till cap, then settlers to settle the SE and NE dots of Cam.

    I am planning to pop the SE hut and move the warrior along the fog border counter-clockwise.

    Your advice is much appreciated. I'll be playing again in something like 10 hours from now. I can read and post from time to time in the meantime if no major problems at work.
     
  16. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

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    Sorry, I have problems uploading it seems.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    The capital thankfully doesn't look too bad after all, despite visible general resource deficiency. Will require renaming though to something more fiendish.

    We'll get a better feeling on dot-mapping when more exploring is done and we see where Horses are (if anywhere).

    Best of luck! :)
     
  18. FiveRings

    FiveRings Chieftain

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    How about 'Manchu Snarl'?:D
     
  19. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Now that we have a resource, I think we should go worker first and Ag>AH>TW>Pot
     
  20. vranasm

    vranasm Chieftain

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    @FR

    good job with that surprising settling ;-) I like it.

    agree on ag->ah->tw->pot.

    Still would start settler size 2.

    Btw the improvements should be farm 1 NW, pasture if AH available.
    Would be actually great to build the settler with the cows ;-).

    Hmm I am too lazy to calculate it... you can prefarm another FP probably (just mark it), but once you have AH, cows should be improved asap (6 yield tile).

    I would settle the 2nd city at the spot 3N, but that will probably do woopdeedoo.
     

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