The Six Nations: Oldest Living Participatory Democracy on Earth

[Pounder]

http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/6Nations/

The Iroquios Confederacy is apparantly 800 years old and is the Oldest Living Participatory Democracy on Earth.

"The original United States representative democracy, fashioned by such central authors as Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, drew much inspiration from this confederacy of nations."

Any thoughts, can this be disputed. They are not saying they are the first, but the oldest.

 

[mrmitchell]

Pretty sure this one is true. OTOH, I don't think it was "complete", i.e. there were plenty of inherited and appointed positions.

I also heard the Iroquois was one of the few matriarchal societies. :hmmm:

 

[Stefan Haertel]

The Icelandic Althing dates back to the 9th century. The Iroquois democracy is very old, no question, but the Icelandic one is older.

 

[Pounder]

The Icelandic Althing dates back to the 9th century. The Iroquois democracy is very old, no question, but the Icelandic one is older.

Wasn't Iceland controlled by the Norwegian Monarchy for several hundred years and then the Danish Monarchy before becoming independent.

 

[Alone]

My admiration to Great Iroqouis Confederation

 

[Stefan Haertel]

Wasn't Iceland controlled by the Norwegian Monarchy for several hundred years and then the Danish Monarchy before becoming independent.

That is correct, but the Althing existed as local administration nevertheless.

 

[storealex]

Sorry for being offtopic, but "The original United States representative democracy"
When did the US stop being representative?

 

[stalin006]

ummh.....greece?

 

[Stefan Haertel]

Greece was not constant.

 

[bigmeat]

iriquoi confederation was a confederation of nations run by tribal leaders who were basically monarchs, so far america is the oldest constant democracy

 

[Stefan Haertel]

so far america is the oldest constant democracy

As I said before, Iceland is.

 

[joespaniel]

Iceland was not independent until after WWII.

 

[Stefan Haertel]

The Althing (Icelandic democratic parliament) nevertheless existed without interruption from the 9th century until today, I already pointed that out.

 

[Ribannah]

http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/6Nations/

The Iroquois Confederacy is apparantly 800 years old and is the Oldest Living Participatory Democracy on Earth.

That is correct, with the emphasis on 'Participatory'.
Only not quite 800 years. The League of (then) Five Nations was formed in 1451 AD, and it still exists (with Six Nations) today.

As far as democracies in general go, Iceland is the oldest. Because of their isolated position it did not have much influence, but still.
Athens was partway there (for the elite only); we would not count that as a true democracy now but at the time it was of course very innovative.
Most modern democracies are, however, derived from the Iroquois example, with some influence from the Magna Charta and the Dutch system of representatives for good measure.
Much of the 'participatory' part was unfortunately lost in the process, and it may be a while before we will recognize that we are still missing something.

 

[Ribannah]

Pretty sure this one is true. OTOH, I don't think it was "complete", i.e. there were plenty of inherited and appointed positions.

I also heard the Iroquois was one of the few matriarchal societies. :hmmm:

Untrue. Male and female Iroquois rights were (are) different, but of equal value.
In the League, the women nominated the representatives, who were men.
Further, what clan you belonged to was determined by who your mother was, and in case of marriage the man, if from another village, moved into the village (and tribe, usually) of the woman. Otoh, it was pretty easy to join another tribe or village. Many Europeans, too, joined Iroquois tribes; sometimes also people of more than one tribe lived in one village.
The only thing that was forbidden was to marry someone of your own clan, the ancient method of keeping the tribes healthy.

There were no inherited positions, but if someone did very well as a representative that would bring status to his family, and new representatives were usually chosen from those families. It is no different today.

There were no appointed positions as there was nobody doing any appointing.

 

[joespaniel]

The Althing (Icelandic democratic parliament) nevertheless existed without interruption from the 9th century until today

Where? If they were under the rule of the Danish Queen, how were they anything but symbolic?

 

[Stefan Haertel]

The Danish empire was not centralistic. Of course they were under the rule of the Danish monarchs, but the Althing was nevertheless the local government. Just like Greenland has it's own government today as well.

 

[luiz]

I was under the impression that the tribal leaders of the Iroquois had monarch-like powers, and that would conflict with our modern definition of Democrcay.

I could well be wrong, though, as Iroquois history is certainly not my speciality.

 

[CruddyLeper]

Isle of Man?

Got no idea how old, or relevant... just popped into my head.

 

[mrmitchell]

Untrue. Male and female Iroquois rights were (are) different, but of equal value.

Different rights can be equal?