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The Super Science City is alive and well in Civ IV

ahigh

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
39
I sat down with some of the great lists of improvements and explanations that have been coming out lately and decided to try getting a city with as high a science output as possible.

I think it's first important to note that in Civ IV you're have the ability to create a super science city, but more importantly, you have the chance to create a super science culture. I will deal with creating a Super Science City first, and a Super Science Culture second.

The Super Science City

Science is also dependent on commerce. It still holds true that putting your super science city on terrain with as many river squares as possible will help you out. I didn't do that in the game I just finished, but I still came up with some impressive scientific numbers.

1. Oxford University (+100 % research, make three pops scientists)
2. Academy (Great Scientist's building +50% science)
3. Lab (+25% Science, space prod. bonus)
4. Library (+25% Science, make two pops scientists)
5. Observatory (+25% science, make one pop scientist)
6. University (+25% science)
Net gain: 250% science, plus just about as many pops as scientists as you want.

Wonders
1. Great Library (+2 Free Scientists)
2. Statue of Liberty (+1 Free Specialists in all cities) even though you're probably reasearching so fast at this point that you don't need it, I was going for numbers.

Here are my city's stats
-Washington (20)
-576 research production (producing research instead of units or buildings added 23 to that total.)
-8 Scientists (+6 beakers each because of representation civic)
-5 imbedded great scientists (+9 beakers each, although these might be better used setting up academies in other cities with high research output)
+250% science production from buildings discussed above
-Three other imbedded great persons at +3 science each


Those stats are heavily dependent on creating the . . .

Super Science Culture

The most important thing you have to do to be successful with this strategy is to gear both your building strategies, and you civics choices toward science.

The civics I went with are as follows.

1. Representation - this adds +3 science to every specialist. This means every times you assign a scientist specialist, you are actually assigning two scientist specialists because the scientist, already +3 gets the bonus as well.
2. I used Bureacracy because it helped my build all the things I needed in my capital, but later switched to Free Speech.
3. Caste System - This is also critical because it allows you to assign and unlimited number of specialists, all of them scientists. By the end of the Industrial era, I had at least five scientists in every city, doing the work that ten scientists would do because of the representation civic.
4. Mercantilism - I used this early because of the +1 Free Specialists. This is very useful when you're getting off the ground and need to balance defense spending and improvement spending.
5. Free Religion - Gives +10% to Science.

That's it. I'm sure there are better ways to do this. Post with questions or comments.
 
Bureaucracy's commerce bonus is MULTIPLICATIVE with the other bonuses, so it singlehandedly increases the research bonus from +250% to +425% with all other buildings. Free Speech is better when you have a ton of towns, but before that you pretty much have to make your SSC your capital because of this enormous bonus.
 
You're right on the monastaries. I just finished a game where I focused my Great People production on Great Scientists, and I ended the game with over 1,000 science from my SSC.
 
try out Philosopical Leaders. try out Pacifism, try out National Epic.
the main point of Super Scientists. +9 each, with +250% bonus. 22.5 each.
the more Super Scientists u merged into city, the more Science Point u get...

u may hit 800-1000 in a good GPFarm city location ...in normal speed @ 1900 AD or so. (if your game hold THAT long)

unless you have no civ-friend, please avoid Merchantilism. it cuts off ALL your trade routes to neighbours. (which .. 4 x 10 > 4 x 2-5 depends on city numbers...) which means u get 6 free beaker but lose out 20 commerce each city. not a good choice imo.

Free Religion is good if u have LOTS of time to spread all the religions to your Main City... or i would like Pacifism more... and Free Religion make no State Religion.. harder to make friends. (sure less enemies too)

[edit] this is just an example of what i talked...not a good save (yeah...war from ~200 BC to 1900 AD w/o stopping isnt really good ! and i turned all down at 1300 AD due to Cossack done...) but still a 700 beakers city @ 0% research :)
 
May I offer a small tip to go along:

It is much easier to establish a super-research/$$ city on a coast than inland. An inland city can't build a harbor, which brings 50% more trade route money.

In mid-late game, it is easy to have 4 foreign trade routes, each worths 9+ golds per turn. (coneected to other Civ's major cities). With the harbor, the city can also support at least 2-3 more pop. from the health bonus of seafood. These extra pops are nice to work on towns, or become specialists.

Needless to say, food sources are really imporant. High pop. is the key to bring huge trade money. :)
 
Kenji said:
the main point of Super Scientists. +9 each, with +250% bonus. 22.5 each.

That is 9 + 250%, or 9 + 22.5 = 31.5 beakers each specialist.

Just to clarify...
 
Lord Chambers said:
Did someone claim that The Super Science City was not alive and well in Civ IV?

Good point. In fact, it was born in Civ 4, so the title doesn't make any sense at all. Saying something is alive and well means people thought it was dead but in fact it's still there.
 
Wow.

I had seen this thread before during my research and condensed your strategy then tried it out (it worked well, though I didn't get all the way up to 582).

Nice screen shot by the way.
 
Woot, a pissing contest. ;)

Best I've gotten so far, science-wise.



I can get 726 if I pull my peasants off the mines and place them as scientists. However, doing so would mean losing my 1-turn-destroyers, and those are vital for the destined war against Isabella. Still, I think it is better this way, besides, the synergy between the Super Engineer and Super Scientist is just too perfect not to pair them up together.

Anyone have a good pic of a hammer city? I want to see how good these can get without the handicap I place upon mine.
 
That is an impressive city, especially because of the combination of 600+ beakers AND 250 hammers. It is not often you can hit each of those levels in the same city...different cities, yes...

What is your National Wonder combination here? You must have Oxford and either Ironworks or Heroic Epic?
 
Impressive indeed. And not randomly placed on a coast, isn't right?

Yes, I would know the national Wonder combination too...
 
Jarrod, the combination of science and production is intentional, in case you were wondering. As a philosophical leader with Pyramids, I can get a decent amount of early Great Engineers. I ship those off to my capital city to become super specialists. After a few of those, I get an early science city which doubles as a factory for World Wonders (not that I consider any Wonder besides the Pyramids a 'must have for this strat). Once Caste System becomes available, I start pumping Great Scientists in another city to build an Acadamy in my cap and then settle as many Scientist super specialists as possible.

Early game, this city is basically responsible for over half of my science output. Oxford is wonderful once it becomes available, since by that time I have at least 110 beakers/turn from my specialists/super-specialists.

Later in the game, as several of my cottage cities mature, the science role of this city becomes less important (while still remaining very significant), and I focus on hammers. The second national wonder build is indeed Ironworks.

I'm still refining my strat, and this is the first time I've located my capital on the coast. I find it works well, since Bureaucracy, Dry Docks, Forge, Factory, 3GD, and Iron Works combine to produce a crazy amount of production for my navy. Basically though, I generally look for a site with flood plains and hills to make my super-city, and build my palace there before, or shortly after, getting Civil Service.



Chameleon: In this particular example, that was my starting city. Usually, I would have built a new capital inland, but there were no better sites to be found, and the coastal ressources made up for the usually sub-par coastal location.

But yes, Iron Works and Oxford are my two national wonders in that city.

I'm considering converting the flood-plain cottages to water-mills. I'll let you guys know how that turns out. ;)
 
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