The Tang Dynasty

[Seth the Dark]

I am currently studying this in my Asian history and was wondering if people knew much about this Chinese dynasty.

 

[Steve Thompson]

this might be interesting to you:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Union/7050/tang.html

 

[Seth the Dark]

That's awesome! Thanks.

 

[Dann]

And here's an entire sub-forum devoted to the subject:

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showforum=9

The Tang was probably the peak of Chinese civilization. At the time of its existence, the only other comparable realm was the Islamic Caliphate.

Tang culture was militaristic and not scholarly, and was actually more open and tolerant than the later Song and Ming. The men wore swords as accessories and the women wore low necklines and translucent fabrics.

 

[Steve Thompson]

What about the Sung? I'd say they were about as much "at the top of their game" as the T'ang...

 

[The Last Conformist]

The Song were mostly getting beating up by various nomads.

 

[pawpaw]

The Song were mostly getting beating up by various nomads.

don't know about getting beat up, but it seemed they were on the defensive from the get go, while the tang was strong and agressive for the first half of its life.

 

[Dann]

The early Song was militaristic enough to successfully reconquer 10 other kingdoms which broke away when the Tang collapsed - with a combined area greater than their own domain. They hit a snag, however, upon hitting the north and the west. That means they got only traditional "China proper" territory only and none of the peripherals. From that point on, they were on the defensive.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

What about the Sung? I'd say they were about as much "at the top of their game" as the T'ang...

From a cultural point of view, the Song was considered the pinnacle of Chinese civilisation, when the Confucian officialdom was at its most powerful in Chinese history... Obviously, a biased view...

 

[Dann]

There's no question Song ranked higher on the cultural scale. Culture being painting, calligraphy, poetry, music and all that artsy girly stuff.

Bah! I prefer raw power and conquest. Han and Tang all the way.

Besides Tang women wore low necklines and translucent silks. While in later dynasties they dressed much more conservatively and had that sickening footbinding thing. I know what I'd like better.

 

[Verbose]

There's no question Song ranked higher on the cultural scale. Culture being painting, calligraphy, poetry, music and all that artsy girly stuff.

Bah! I prefer raw power and conquest. Han and Tang all the way.

Besides Tang women wore low necklines and translucent silks. While in later dynasties they dressed much more conservatively and had that sickening footbinding thing. I know what I'd like better.

I've been taught that the martial tone of the Tang dynasty was due to nomadic (Turkish) influence. The founder of the dynasty was a sinisiced Turk.

Courtiers would bear arms, practice horse-archery and hunting with predatory birds, all of which are traits of horse-nomad culture.

Another effect of this influence is said to have been that the Tang court liked their women... big.

Just like the horse-nomads, but not what one expects considering traditional Chinese standards of beauty.

 

[Dann]

I've been taught that the martial tone of the Tang dynasty was due to nomadic (Turkish) influence. The founder of the dynasty was a sinisiced Turk.

Courtiers would bear arms, practice horse-archery and hunting with predatory birds, all of which are traits of horse-nomad culture.

True there was Turkish influence in the Tang, but the martial spirit is not an exclusively nomadic trait. The Han was purely agricultural and sedentary, and yet no man of stature will be seen in public without his sword. Even earlier than that, during the Warring States, a gentleman should not only be academically learned, but also know how to fight with a sword, shoot a bow and drive a chariot.

This martial spirit got exported to Japan and contributed to the formation of Bushido, which is still looked up upon today. In contrast, the martial spirit only got weaker and weaker in China through the centuries.

Another effect of this influence is said to have been that the Tang court liked their women... big.

Just like the horse-nomads, but not what one expects considering traditional Chinese standards of beauty.

Oh yeah. That. Slipped my mind.

Oh well, if it's any consolation, at least big women tend to have big jugs.

 

[sydhe]

From its founding in the early 7th century until the An-Lushan rebellion in 755 (a period called the "fullness of T'ang), the T'ang was probably the most powerful native Chinese Dynasty relative to the rest of the world. Before the battle at the Talas River, they even had power in the region of Turkestan beyond Sinkiang. After the rebellion, they were much weaker, and staggered through the late 9th century waiting for someone to put them out of their misery, which someone finally did in 907 AD.

The movie House of Flying Daggers is set during the decline phase of the Tang;

 

[Uiler]

On a note, in Cantonese, the most common term for Chinese is "People of Tang" or "Tong Yun". Ergo, Chinese (the language) is "Tong wa" and there is the phrase "Tong San" (the mountains of Tang). The legacy of Tang still remains...

 

[Knight-Dragon]

I thought that refers to the overseas Chinese?

 

[Uiler]

I thought that refers to the overseas Chinese?

Not as far as I know. I've always understood "People of Tang" as refering to Chinese in general, though the term only seems to be popular amongst Cantonese.

 

[Japanrocks12]

The Sung(or Song) Dynasty was when China was at its peak in its technological development. Gunpowder and the movable printing block was developed during this period.

EDIT: It is also possible, if I can remember correctly, that the Chinese developed the triangular lateen sail at this time.

I have to mention, though, that the Sung Dynasty was NOT the epitome of China's military strength. Indeed, this is where nomadic northern kingdoms grew in strength whearas before the Chinese could keep them in check.

 

[Dann]

On a note, in Cantonese, the most common term for Chinese is "People of Tang" or "Tong Yun". Ergo, Chinese (the language) is "Tong wa" and there is the phrase "Tong San" (the mountains of Tang). The legacy of Tang still remains...

We Hokkien from the Philippines don't have equivalent terms for "Tong Yun" or "Tong Wa". Instead we use "Lan Nang" and "Lan Nang Wei", respectively, which translates as "our people" and "our people's language".

My grandparents' generation, however, also referred to the homeland as "Teng Sua" - the mountains of Tang. Same as the Cantonese, it turns out. By my father's time, a weak Taiwan and a chaotic China made them change their term for China to a less loving "Tai Diok" - the mainland, which sometimes took on derogatory tones.

 

[Khaghan]

" Before the battle at the Talas River, they even had power in the region of Turkestan beyond Sinkiang. "

The Talas myth again? Please, this overbloated battle is of pin prick importance to Tang's political cause. Tang continued to have influence beyond Kashgaria until An Lu Shan.

 

[sydhe]

That's only four years. Talas was 751; An Lushan 755.