[GS] The Two thousand years' war

[Loderingo]

Playing as Gorgo on Immortal Pangaea.

I start in the SW of the map on the coast with a large tundra/ice area to my south west. Nubia is to my east and settles her second city in my direction. It soon becomes apparent we are heading for war. I'm thinking about declaring but have issues with the barbarians. Nubia declares just as I have a settler ready forcing me to settle towards the tundra instead of where I wanted up the coast. This is about 500 BC in the Classical era.

I manage to fight off Nubia's first wave and go on the attack to try to take her second city. Unfortunately, she gets walls up and I don't have a ram. I retreat and try to make peace but she refuses. She sends a massive second wave. In the end I can't fight it off and she takes Sparta.

At this point, I am thinking of calling this game a loss but then I think people say the game is too easy. Let's persevere and try at least get revenge on Nubia.

Fortunately, as we have now hit mediaeval an emergency pops up against Nubia for taking my capital. 3 other civs join.

I should mention that the other civs are Indonesia in the NW, Mali in the far NW, Sumeria in the N, Scythia in the NE, Cree in the E and Inca in the far E. Fortunately for me, Nubia neighbours Indonesia, Sumeria and Cree.

The emergency means I can take a bit of a back seat and concentrate on building more cities and fighting the barbs. Indonesia takes my former capital and keeps it. As my former capital is some way from the Indonesian core, it flips to free city and I take it back.

We have now reached the status quo ante (although i have come off worse) and i ask for peace. Nubia refuses.

The good news is that because I am so weak and pathetic most of the other Civs like me and hate Nubia (whose grievances are not going away as we are still at war). I am able to make a number of friends.

At this point I concentrate on getting walls up and building encampment districts on the border with Nubia. She sends troops periodically but I can fight them off. I keep trying for peace but no joy. At least I have seen off the barbarians. I have 2 good cities and 3 on Tundra/Ice.

We are now into Industrial era and I get hit by a massive blizzard taking my 3 Tundra cities down to 1 pop each! Fortunately, I get an aid request mission come up and all the AI civs join in - even Nubia! Nubia is finally willing to settle for peace but wants 900 gold. I'm not paying that!

I didn't have iron or horses but I do have niter, even though I have to settle another ice city to get it. I spend my aid money to buy some bombards.

By this point, I have 4 alliances with Cree, Sumeria, Scythia and Indonesia (and add a 5th later with Mali) and it doesn't take much to persuade my allies to join my war.

The Cree attack Meroe and take it, while an Indonesian frigate helpfully attacks Abu Simbel. I move a melee unit up and grab Abu Simbel. Nubia will finally agree a peace deal, giving me money and a lux! I take it.

The peace doesn't last long as Scythia suggests a joint war against Nubia - it would be rude not too! This war is inconclusive.

We are now up to the atomic era and Sumeria suggests a joint war against Nubia - why not! Sumeria takes Nubia's largest city (El-Kurru) and this point they start to collapse due to loyalty. Sumeria can't hold El-Kurru so I take it from free city to stop Nubia getting it back.

We now hit the Information age. I have had dark and normal ages all game but thanks to my archaeologist I've finally get a heroic age while Nubia gets a dark age.

Nubia loses further cities and Cree takes out their last city with a giant death robot in 1910 just as I'm discovering Industrialisation!

My war is finally over and I am the weakest civ for science and culture (I'm eras behind for science). I don't have a religion. The only good news is that because I'm so weak I have 5 alliances and am rolling in favour. I have 5 diplo points and might still be able to win the game.

I guess the moral is don't give up

 

[Krajzen]

Awesome story and awesome game : )
I really respect you kept playing even after losing capital. My best sessions in any strategy games were similar underdog stories.

 

[Disgustipated]

Not sure how you can get a win from that, but the important thing is Nubia loses.

 

[Tyroq]

Not sure how you can get a win from that, but the important thing is Nubia loses.

Diplomatic victory... maybe

 

[MrRadar]

I guess the moral is don't give up

That's the spirit, just hang in there!
The most memorable games are usually those, where you're in a constant uphill battle and have to find and use every single tool the game has to come out on top. And even if you don't, the battle is often memorable enough to tell your electronic grandchildren Ragequitters will never know what that means.
Also, OP, where are your screenshots? History books with pics are always more interesting

Not sure how you can get a win from that, but the important thing is Nubia loses.

Well, if he has some enemies left among all those allies, maybe he could pillage his way back into relevance?

 

[Jkchart]

This is awesome! Thanks for sharing.

 

[regeneration64]

I want to hear the ending!

 

[kb27787]

If they have GDR and you just hit industrialization.... wouldn't it mean they are currently at exoplanet already? Probably no way to win with just 5 diplo points (unless you have a ton of culture... and can get the global warming initiative thing). SoL probably gone too...

You would get stuck at 8-9 diplopoints.

Still, I hope you at least got to raze some Nubian cities as revenge.

 

[Loderingo]

How do you upload screenshots?

The ending was as follows:

At the next World Congress I was able to get the 2 victory points. I also got a point for winning the lowest emissions contest (as I had so few cities and little infrastructure). This took me to 8 points.

It was 5 turns from the next congress, when Cree won a science victory. I had most favour by a long way so might have been able to force it but I don't begrudge the Cree their victory as they helped defeat Nubia. As kb says SoL was gone and I was nowhere near seasteads.

Still a fun game!

 

[regeneration64]

A really good effort and just shows that 1. It's not all about the winning and 2. Often it is worth continuing even when you initially think you are staring defeat in the face. Certainly sounds like a memorable game without just clicking next turn towards the end to get to a VC!

 

[SxSnts9]

Kudos on playing through. People always complain that the game is too easy (and it is), but most of those whiners restart 5x before they settle in and then will quit if they don't have iron in their initial borders lol. News flash, if you quit or restart...that is you losing. Good for you playing through a brutal start to the end. Sounds like you enjoyed it as well!

 

[Finvola]

Great story! I had a situation the other night where I was nearly at the point of ragequitting, but decided to stick it out and I'm glad I did.It was certainly a challenge but it was worth it in the end. I had to use every tactic I could think of to recover and catch up and hopefully gain a victory. I had no military power to actually do anything because I was so far behind in tech, Gilgamesh was just looking for any excuse to go to war with me and at one point he did and he hit me pretty hard.

I played a marathon game on a huge continents map with 12 civs but I spawned on a tiny island all by myself with not even a single CS. It was great to start but once I met other civs it was painfully obvious they were far ahead of me with tech.It ended up coming down to making allies and using spies to steal tech and art. I wasn't able to gain an advantage until late game, but I did. I gained some tech, agreed to a few joint wars and stole as much art as I could. I ended up getting a culture victory and it was the longest game I played so far, but after it was all said and done, I was happy that I chose not to give up.

 

[MrRadar]

How do you upload screenshots?

Take screenshots with F12 ingame, Steam has a dedicated screenshot folder.
Then make an account with some picture hosting website (I use Imgur, but there are plenty), upload them there, copy image location and post the link here, using the 'Image' button from the toolbar right above the text field. There may be other ways, but this is one I know.

 

[lordhaw]

These are by far the most memorable games, taking a bad situation and going for it. Sure you may not win but in the end you feel good because it was worth it. An easy win is boring. A hard fought loss is still worth it because you gave it your best shot.

 

[Jkchart]

Really, i love these kinds of stories. I played a Spain game where my goal was to win a religious victory. I got stuck in the west part of the continent with Catholicism, the Dutch in the central with Protestantism, and the Russians in the east with Orthodoxy. The Dutch were dominating and nearly wiped out my religion, so i went to war to force them back. It took 3 or 4 long wars, but I eventually pacified them and took most of their territory and dominated the continent religiously. Unfortunately, this messed up my whole plan for religious victory so I had to force a culture victory to even attempt a win by then (luckily, it worked because I had lots of good national park land).

I also learned that Conquistadors can be one of the best mid-game units - they just require a lot of setup/micro of religious units with them.

My Sweden game was down to the TURNS between me and Kongo (my ally) who was about to win a science victory. Luckily, my premier Rock Band was a whiz at playing his spaceports

 

[Loderingo]

OK. here's the first screenshot - after the blizzard hit Corinth and Ephesus

Here is the second screenshot after Nubia was killed off.

 

[MrRadar]

OK. here's the first screenshot - after the blizzard hit Corinth and Ephesus

View attachment 520872

Here is the second screenshot after Nubia was killed off.

View attachment 520873

Ah, now we're talking! Now we have some pictures to the text. Which also reveal either rookie mistakes or... some house rules, like listed in the spoiler. Fair warning, if you're under no house rules, read at your own risk to spoil the joys of discovering the game all on your own, they're just a few simplest of the tips, but they also might be what the button says - spoilers:

Spoiler :

are you sure? ok then, now its for real:

Spoiler :

I see no campus districts, not a single one, campus is the most important district - knowledge gives power, advanced military power;

you can skip holy sites until you better know the game, better go for Commercial hubs first - gold will upgrade your troops and buy you things, Theater districts are also important, all others - situational, you can win with no encampments or industrial zones - if you must choose to ignore something, you can ignore these last two. Harbours can be nice, but better look for adjacent sea resources for them;

You did not chop any trees? Even on hills? No marsh clearing for population increase, minimal possible mining (mine the hills!), and on top of that - no Magnus? All that - huge production losses, delayed districts, units, lost pop on building settlers (Provision promotion on Magnus)

Most Wonders are a trap, try to learn winning games without them, then see, which ones you can fit in, if they really help your game. Some Wonders may be worth building, but most of them are best when they are built by the AI and captured by you.

And, of course, if you so wish, you can forget all of the above and play as you wish

 

[Loderingo]

MrRadar thanks for the feedback. I have uploaded the save that matches the first screenshot, if you would like to have a go and see what you can do with it.

I have a few comments in reply to your specific points.

I do build campuses normally but I would only build them next to mountains or jungle. I built a single theater square as I was originally hoping for a culture game before I was derailed.

Generally, with tundra and ice, my reasoning has always been that the land is useless so build harbours (perhaps this is bad reasoning)

I don't generally chop very much - only if I have very heavy jungle. I tend to see trees on tundra as good candidates for a national park. In this game, it didn't work out as I didn't have enough faith to get a naturalist.

I didn't know you could clear marsh - that's good to know

In the old versions of Civ, I used to get a worker and develop all features. In Civ VI, as the builder cost increases, I have tended to have one builder per city and then sometimes get an extra builder later, if new resources were uncovered. Do you tend to build everything out as early as possible or do you wait for the +2 charges card to become available?

I didn't build any wonders in this game (I was so far behind that all the good ones had gone by the time I got there). In other games, i build wonders occasionally.

Overall, thanks for some food for thought, which I'll definitely look at for my next game.

 

[MrRadar]

I do build campuses normally but I would only build them next to mountains or jungle.

Yep, but when mountains (and jungle) are scarce, like in this situation, they should be built regardless, couple them up with other districts for some adjacency if you can, but more important will be to have libraries and unies in them - a few envoys to scientific City states, use scientific specialists in those buildings even, and you won't have to face AI's GDRs in the endgame.

I don't generally chop very much - only if I have very heavy jungle. I tend to see trees on tundra as good candidates for a national park. In this game, it didn't work out as I didn't have enough faith to get a naturalist.

Ok, do whatever you want with the tundra trees , but those trees on grassland hills are just asking to be chopped and become new districts, and the hills mined. Also, don't ignore farms - they raise your housing limit and let your cities grow faster. You want size 10 cities sooner than later. Now you only have size 5-6 cities at t200 mark. Let's say, that is very far from ideal.

In the old versions of Civ, I used to get a worker and develop all features. In Civ VI, as the builder cost increases, I have tended to have one builder per city and then sometimes get an extra builder later, if new resources were uncovered. Do you tend to build everything out as early as possible or do you wait for the +2 charges card to become available?

One builder per city? No, no. Builder is your best unit and you need them more, especially post GS, if only to keep a few around with 1 charge left for quick repairs after a disaster. Now even on t333 your land is seriously seriously underdeveloped, barely touched at all. It is environmentally superfriendly, but we don't have an Ecological Victory yet It is not worth to postpone development until +2 card, Liang and Pyramids are helpful with extra charges, but build builders in their absence anyway, if you have what to chop, harvest, improve and work now.

It is better to have less but now than a bit more but later in Civ, because that "less" starts bringing dividend immediately and outgrows in value that potential "more" of "later". Snowballing is the word.

 

[Jkchart]

Yep, but when mountains (and jungle) are scarce, like in this situation, they should be built regardless, couple them up with other districts for some adjacency if you can, but more important will be to have libraries and unies in them - a few envoys to scientific City states, use scientific specialists in those buildings even, and you won't have to face AI's GDRs in the endgame.


Ok, do whatever you want with the tundra trees , but those trees on grassland hills are just asking to be chopped and become new districts, and the hills mined. Also, don't ignore farms - they raise your housing limit and let your cities grow faster. You want size 10 cities sooner than later. Now you only have size 5-6 cities at t200 mark. Let's say, that is very far from ideal.


One builder per city? No, no. Builder is your best unit and you need them more, especially post GS, if only to keep a few around with 1 charge left for quick repairs after a disaster. Now even on t333 your land is seriously seriously underdeveloped, barely touched at all. It is environmentally superfriendly, but we don't have an Ecological Victory yet It is not worth to postpone development until +2 card, Liang and Pyramids are helpful with extra charges, but build builders in their absence anyway, if you have what to chop, harvest, improve and work now.

It is better to have less but now than a bit more but later in Civ, because that "less" starts bringing dividend immediately and outgrows in value that potential "more" of "later". Snowballing is the word.

@Loderingo I would absolutely agree with @MrRadar on these points. Developing unused land is incredibly important. You won't always get around to it right away, but unless you're Maori or saving features for, say, national parks, use as much land as you can! Chop jungle, because you can't really improve it, unless you have a good reason not to (high yield uni, Chichen Itza wonder, etc). Chop marsh unless you can put a rice farm on it. Selectively chop trees - usually on a hill, it can go and you should drop a mine there. On a river - you have a choice. You CAN save trees on a river because lumbermills provide good yield when placed near a river, but that's up to you. It depends on what you need. More food? Chop and drop farms.

Not only do you need to drop farms for the housing, but you need to be sure to place them in triangles. You get bonus food on each farm in a triangle shape starting with feudalism, and later in the game, farms get bonus food from each adjacent farm. So if you have a bunch of fertile, unimproved land and aren't sure what to do with it yet, drop farms at least temporarily! Those extra pops and advancing in techs will tell you if/when you need something different, and farms are easily replaceable

If you don't want to build builders, I noticed you have a lot of gold stockpiled up. Buy them instead! It's what I end up doing a lot of the time because I really like having a strong gold income.

Districts are key! Adjacency bonuses are nice and helpful, but not necessary. If you don't have the right features, building clustered district tiles together will get you small adjacency bonuses. For example: If I build a campus next to my city center on the left, then build a commercial hub, industrial zone, theater square, encampment, and neighborhood all adjacent to it (no matter what city it belongs to) will net a total of +3 science for that campus from adjacencies. If you really need, you can also slot policies that give double adjacency bonuses to bring it up to 6! Clustered cities can make up for a lack of adjacency features You just have to make sure that you don't neglect things like farms and mines so you can still support that.

Push your culture and science as far as you can, even if you have to just build a no-adjacency district. The buildings (and specialists if you really need them) will make up for it, as will the district density bonuses you can create!