The Ultimate Civilization

ginovili

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
12
Hey civ fans, I want to share my thoughts on how the final or definitive or ultimate civilization be. I have been playing this game since 1993. CIV 1 was the best amiga game I had, then I devoured every new game in the franchise. I wrote sid meiers a couple of times but got no reply. I guess my ideas were too radical for him. Now I will share them with you.

You start a city quite easily. You start another one soon. Then you have a dozen of them. A city is not so significant in the game. Who cares if you lose one or two. But if the game mechanics are altered in a way that a level system is introduced to the buildings, cities will be much more important. First of all the resources gathered in the city by labour should be as simple as possible. Two main resources: food and gold. Science and production should not be gathered by labour but from buildings. The city screen should present a way to divide the gathered gold to gold, production and science. The balance should be unique for each city and determine its development. Building levels are crucial here. There should be 5-7 levels of production and science buildings. Higher level buildings should be introduced by sciences. With each increasing building level the efficiency of converting gathered gold to production or science should improve. For example in a new city you convert 10 gold to 1 production. Workshop improves the level and the efficiency rises to 20%. So the more you invest in upgrading each building, more important will that city be for your particular global tendency. If you want to conquer the enemies fast, you build barracks first. The armies do not use production like building improvements. Barracks open up a specialist slot or two and you convert citizen to soldier to activate the formation of a new army. You build armory and earn new unit type as well as new soldier slot. The higher soldiers are allocated in a city, the faster units are produced. Settlers and workers may be built up like buildings. I am open for suggestions on that. The culture and religion outputs are produced similar to the armies, in upgradable building slots. That way the specialists have a real meaning. Micromaanagement is an entertainment in such a game with so many combinations.

One other vital property is the happiness. Global and local city happiness should be different. Global happiness determines your overall growth and development rate and is handled in much the same way as it is now. Local city happiness affects immigration - a completely new concept - such that unhappy or content cities give away citizens to nearby cities with higher happiness. And it can be enemy cities too! Local happiness is improved by buildings as happiness is improved in the current version.

Trading goods are important for the realistic economy system in the ultimate civilization. There are quite adequate resource types in the map now. The trick is in using them. Again buildings come into play. For example winery converts grapes to wine which is used to trade for serious amounts of gold between nations or between cities. For example one of your cities demand wine. You choose to send the one produced in one city to the other and gain gold as well as happiness. Again good production buildings should be upgradable with new technologies such that improved winery gives 2 wines.

That much should give you the taste of the ultimate civilization. I will be back with more ideas. :scan:
 
Hey civ fans, I want to share my thoughts on how the final or definitive or ultimate civilization be. I have been playing this game since 1993. CIV 1 was the best amiga game I had, then I devoured every new game in the franchise. I wrote sid meiers a couple of times but got no reply. I guess my ideas were too radical for him. Now I will share them with you.

:: shrugs ::

Regarding the first idea:

How is having two levels of a library significantly different than having a preexisting library as a prerequisite for having a university? Or two levels of barracks significantly different than having a preexisting barracks as a prerequisite for an armory?

Sure, the first idea said something like seven levels or whatever per building. Civ V has 3 military training buildings that must be built in a specific order and 3 money generating buildings that must be built in a specific order.

I can't even remember the last time I actually built a Military Academy in Civ V, so I'm questioning what the point would be of four military training facilities AFTER Military Academy.

Regarding the third idea:

Sounds very similar to the commercial production buildings in the Colonization mod for Civ IV.

Rum distilleries required both workers AND unrefined sugar. Cigar factories required both workers AND unrefined tobacco. Et cetera, et cetera.
 
I guess I couldnt make myself clear on the building level idea. I think production, science and gold buildings should have levels not the library alone. This is pretty much done in Civ 5 as library is the first level, university second, public school third, etc. It is not the same however for production buildings. When you build the highest level building eg. nuclear power plant, the efficiency does not reach 100%.

The level idea is functional for conversion of gathered gold to production, science and gold itself. For example you gather 3 gold from a pasture in addition to 3 food. You can divide the gold into 1 production, 1 science and 1 gold in a new city. In a developed city the conversion yields double output. And maybe triple for an advanced city with buildings in the 7th level.

Colonization was a great game. I refer to the one released in the 90s. You could gather raw materials, convert them to goods and develop a strong economy. I would like to see that economy gameplay in civilization also present in games like anno XXXX. The quantity and value of goods should be dynamic. When you have a stock exchange in civ 5 it increases the gold efficiency by 30%. But how? It should also allow you to exchange 1 good with another in the free market economy. Economy gameplay should be as attractive as military, science or religion gameplay to establish a balance.

The idea of two main city resources: food and gold introduces a normalisation on some unrealistic game aspects. In real world you dont build mines in every hill you see just to extract simple rock, silica or beach sand. Mines are built if there is a resource in the tile. You gain significant gold and a resource from the mine. Golds are converted to production or science as you desire and strategic resources are spent in production buildings. This idea is new and interesting: Iron, coal, aluminum, etc. fill building slots just like specialists. Now I call that a strategic resource! In all my games they stock up useless in the above tab without a real use. Who builds 30 swordsman anyway?

Overall my point is a city should be developed first before building any wonders. Buildings should be diverse and many. But should be concentrated on the production, science, gold, culture, religion, resource, army, defense outputs. Resources should be as much and new raw materials should be added. I'm a materials engineer and I can propose you some:

Strategic Resources:

Horses
Timber (main building material in the early ages but also common. forests become important with that resource)
Iron
Marble
Clay (converts to cement. how can one not include cement in a game called civilization?)
Minerals
Coal
Copper
Aluminum
Titanium
Oil
Boron
Not gold!

Luxury Resources:

Grapes
Tobacco
Salt
Tea
Sugar
Incense
Cotton
Furs
Gems
Silver
Not gold!
 
Here is a new idea: Government cabinet or a board of advisors that you choose. The natural question in response would be whom to choose? I think this would be beneficial use of great people. For example you have 10 places in the cabinet. Minister of Economy or Economy advisor is chosen from great merchants. Adam Smith for example provides a bonus of 20% increase in gold production efficiency. Defense advisor from great generals. Patton would provide a bonus of increase the barracks production rate by 15% or an attack bonus to tanks. Quality and quantity of great people should be diverse. 100-200 unique characters should pop up throughout history.

A definite must have in the ultimate civilization is the peaceful acquisition of foreign cities. Influence of culture or religion can triger a revolt in a nearby city. I think this was present in an older version 3 or 4 I cant remember. City states however were not present in the previous versions. Revolt provides a realistic way of assimilating minor powers and a means to utilize culture and religion more effectively.
 
The level idea is functional for conversion of gathered gold to production, science and gold itself. For example you gather 3 gold from a pasture in addition to 3 food. You can divide the gold into 1 production, 1 science and 1 gold in a new city.

Okay, so this idea is basically advocating a city/civilization's budget into three basic categories, similar to every iteration of Civilization before Civilization V.

The main difference with this idea is that production has never been one of those categories to invest budget percentage into in previous Civilizations.

It isn't a bad idea, actually. I mean, if a budget can be allocated to research or cultural pursuits, why can't a budget also be used to expedite industrial output? Of course, it would probably mean that hammer output from tiles would be reduced, and quite possibly lead to just two resources (gold and food) to juggle in determining which tiles to work. Such an outcome seems like it would tend to make the determination of city placement a rather straight forward process...the complete opposite of the "interesting decisions" paradigm that Sid Meier favors in his games.

If a city budget can be streamed into production without making the placement of cities ridiculously one dimensional, it could be an interesting idea.

However, I still maintain that 7 sequential city improvements is a bit ridiculous given the production cost of buildings in Civilization and what city improvements actually do in Civilization V, especially for production.
 
Last night I was playing my 10th civ 5 campaign with holfgard's two mods. I was very surprised with the improvements in resource gathering. New buildings and resources makes the game almost upgraded. I recommend that modpack to everyone who is bored with the current economy gameplay.

@mintcandy
There is a trade-off changing game mechanics between old exciting and new simple. I agree with you that city place choice can be boring if food and gold were the main resources provided that resources are scarce. However if you decorate the tile with insignificant, significant and highly significant resources, then the excitement comes back. Production should be based on the infrastructure of the city and not on tile bonuses. For example if there is a source salt near your city, your city mines and sells it, doesnt convert to buildings. Stones however can be converted to buildings, but in my idea they should replace engineer specialists in production building slots instead of directly contributing to building. I think the great many combinations of resources and buildings will bring more "interesting decisions" to the game throughout the 6000 years, rather than the initial city settling period.
 
Back
Top Bottom