Zack
99% hot gas
Are you implying Tarzan won't go to heaven? Because I'd take offense to that. Tarzan is a good Christian man!
The ultimate poll: Are you worth more than an ape?
- Thread starter Terxpahseyton
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timtofly
One Day
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Your linguistic ability points to the position that we must accept that fact without any questioning in the difference between the two genus.
Dude, you must be high if you can come up with that kind of mind-blowage.
lol I just now got what you meant (before I was profoundly confused) That happens if you don't acknowledge the existence of the multi-quote button and just use the copy keys of your keyboard instead.
Corrected
Aww, it was fun while it lasted.
^Hm. I don't know about the Koko/Gorilla foundation, but the video (i saw the second one) does not really depict any evidence the gorilla there is communicating something in reply to supposedly the human's sign language (let alone words, of course).
They have been doing experiments where they teach chimps sign language, and those chimps teach other chimps sign language. And they can show the chimps know the proper context for using the signs based on their interactions with people and various stimuli. I remember doing a report on it for a psychology class years ago.
Link to the wiki...
Note that the term "great ape" does not refer to the genus level, but the family level.
sophie
Break My Heart
I'm not talking about genii. This has nothing (well, prima facie nothing) to do with evolution. It's pure classification. Organisms which have characteristics x, y, and z are classified as apes. Chimpanzees and Gorillas have characteristics x, y, and z and so are apes. Humans have characteristics x, y, and z as well and so are also apes.
Hojsimpson
Prince
Tarzan has ape brothers.
His brothers won't go to heaven because they're apes! Tarzan would be sad
All apes go to Heaven
Zack
99% hot gas
I take offense to that. His ape brothers are good Christian men!Tarzan has ape brothers.
His brothers won't go to heaven because they're apes! Tarzan would be sad
timtofly
One Day
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To be honest, I didn't think it was, but on second reading I could see how it could have been.
Terxpahseyton
Nobody
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So what about a handicapped guy too dumb to ever learn to do your research?
Is he worth less than you but more than an ape?
You are.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
We share things with many different animals, but humans are unique in ways that no other animal is. We are a separate kind, no matter what man made classifications. We also do A, B and C that apes can't do.
Zack
99% hot gas
Giraffes have ridiculously long necks that make them unique in ways that no other animal is. Giraffes are a separate kind, no matter what man made classifications.
"Apes" is a broad term which includes humans, so your statement here doesn't make any sense. It would be like saying that pick-up trucks do A, B, and C that automobiles can't do.
sophie
Break My Heart
We share things with many different animals, but humans are unique in ways that no other animal is. We are a separate kind, no matter what man made classifications. We also do A, B and C that apes can't do.
Cats | Cats | - | - | - | -
Dogs | Dogs | - | - | - | -
Insects | - | - | - | -
Humans | Humans | Humans | Humans | Humans | Humans
Neanderthal | Neanderthal | Neanderthal | Neanderthal | Neanderthal | -
Gorilla | Gorilla | Gorilla | Gorilla | - | -
Chimpanzee | Chimpanzee | Chimpanzee | Chimpanzee | - | -
Orangutan | Orangutan | Orangutan | Orangutan | - | -
Birds | - | - | - | - | -
Capuchin Monkey | Capuchin Monkey | Capuchin Monkey | - | - | -
Spider Monkey | Spider Monkey | Spider Monkey | - | - | -
Spiders | - | - | - | - | -
Fish | - | - | - | - | -
Whales | Whales | - | - | - | -
Dolphins | Dolphins | - | - | - | -
Of course this whole means of classifying things like this is kind of silly, you're right. Nowadays evolutionary scientists generally use cladograms, which, rather than trying to classify organisms into predefined sets, orders them based on to whom they are most closely related physiologically and genetically.
Surprisingly, Humans are still pretty closely related to the rest of the "apes" and "primates"
Zack
99% hot gas
And according to this table, we're a bunch of homos. Checkmate, Bible!
This semantic discussion of whether the question makes sense of not is rather misguided. In some cases, human is a subcategory of ape, granted, but that does not mean that is always wrong to use ape as a category that does not include humans. Language has ambiguities like that. Clearly the intent here is to ask are humans worth more to chimps and Gorillas and the like. Even if the use of the word "ape" in this way were not common, it is reasonable to let a person define what they mean by the words they use, and not insist on your chosen definition, when he is trying to ask a question.
So can we move on from making this a thread about English, and make it a thread about human worth?
So can we move on from making this a thread about English, and make it a thread about human worth?
Aleksey_aka_al
Smiley
For myself, of course. But not for the ape or from an absolute perspective. So: no.
SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
For my criteria they're about equal. They wouldn't be able to do much in a lab.
Terxpahseyton
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So why do you think the ability to perform research in your lab should determine a beings worth?
SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
What do you mean by "worth"? Are you referring to a universal standard to be used by everybody? Does the estimation denote avenues of action to be undertaken?
Terxpahseyton
Nobody
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I can not tell you what idea of worth I refer to. Because the identity of this idea is part of what I am asking you.
You made a statement about worth, now I am asking you to explain it. This will necessarily rest on your idea of worth, not mine.
All I can tell you is the idea of worth my answer of the poll rests on, but that does not seem helpful right now since this is probably not the idea you used when making your statement about worth.
You made a statement about worth, now I am asking you to explain it. This will necessarily rest on your idea of worth, not mine.
All I can tell you is the idea of worth my answer of the poll rests on, but that does not seem helpful right now since this is probably not the idea you used when making your statement about worth.