The Worst UU!

[RegentMan]

I voted the F-15 too, though after reading the comments the chasqui scout is probably worse.

I do hope that you don't think I voted for the F-15! I regrettably voted for the Portuguese carrack, but would change my vote to the Chasqui scout if I could.

1) By the time I can build them I probably had my GA long ago already. Yes, I do build wonders, I hope that isn't a crime.

No, not a crime. However, those of us who are unlucky and don't get a GA until an F-15 shoots down a bomber will advocate their use. Having your 100-shield city in a GA will drastically increase your production.

2) I seldom build fighters/jet fighters anyway. I focus on bombers, and with the introduction of AA ground units the need for fighters is diminished further.

Jet fighters are better defenders than the AA ground units. Make them an F-15 and they're even better. Plus, you can relocate an F-15 anywhere in the world in one turn; with AA, you need to have a railroad network to get there in the same time.

3) A Panzer can still help you if you are outmatched even in the late Industrial Age. A Jet Fighter with improved bombard capabilities isn't going to help you much in evening the odds in the Modern Age.

An F-15 is there forever. It will never be obsolete. Never. Everyone else can only build jet fighters. You will have the better defender for the rest of time. You bring up C3C's introduction of anti-aircraft units. Bombers are deadly (literally) in C3C, thus your main and most effective defense will be a jet fighter. But wait... you have the F-15. Thus, you rule the skies.

The main problem with the F-15, as I see it, is that it replaces a unit which is not critical and not many people build anyway.

The F-15 replaces a unit that is vital in the fight against bombers. You will experience less losses, and I bet that many more people build it than it seems.

 

[Tomoyo]

An F-15 is there forever. It will never be obsolete. Never. Everyone else can only build jet fighters. You will have the better defender for the rest of time. You bring up C3C's introduction of anti-aircraft units. Bombers are deadly (literally) in C3C, thus your main and most effective defense will be a jet fighter. But wait... you have the F-15. Thus, you rule the skies.

IIRC the Jet Fighter and the F-15 shoot down bombers exactly the same. The F-15 just has extra bombard.

 

[Afterburner]

IIRC the Jet Fighter and the F-15 shoot down bombers exactly the same. The F-15 just has extra bombard.

The official Civ3 site agrees with you.

Std Jet Fighter 8/4/6 2/0/1
American F-15 8/4/6 4/0/2

 

[RegentMan]

I never specifically said that the F-15 defended better...

 

[Rohili]

Well, you said this:

The F-15 replaces a unit that is vital in the fight against bombers. You will experience less losses, and I bet that many more people build it than it seems.

You won't experience less losses with the F-15, since it has the same Attack/Defence strength as normal Jet Fighters. What it has over the Jet Fighters is its bombard strength, but even that is severely outmatched by normal bombers (who builds fighters for bombardment anway?).

I don't see what's so great about it not getting obsolete for the rest of the game. It is outmatched the minute it comes out, since bombers, stealth bombers and stealth fighters can bombard as good or better than it, while the Jet Fighter can maintain air superiority as good as it. Correct me if I am wrong, but while you are maintaining air superiority you cannot bombard on the same turn right? So that basically nullifies its advantage.

 

[Afterburner]

Clearly, if we need a new American UU, and it has to come from the modern age, it needs to be an M1 Abrams. Make it like Modern Armor, but with 4 moves instead of 3. Make it a little easier to mount late-game offensives against large opponents.

 

[oilfan]

IMO the F-15 comes too late in the game and with too few advantages to be at all significant, but then I don't usually play too far into the modern age (enjoy the earlier ones more).

 

[RegentMan]

A four move modern armor may be a bit overpowered. That's a five move army of destruction!

 

[Rohili]

IMO the F-15 comes too late in the game and with too few advantages to be at all significant, but then I don't usually play too far into the modern age (enjoy the earlier ones more).

Actually I enjoy the modern age better, you have much more units to build, transportation is better and production is better. This is also when a war really feels like a full scale war rather then small battles and skirmishes during the ancient and middle ages.

Too bad the modern age comes too late.