The WW2 MOD - Suggestions, Ideas, Discussions...

[Grey Fox]

As my MOD thread is getting smacked with posts, 9 pages in only 16 days, I have opened this thread.

You can find the MOD here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18078

Post, as the title implies, suggestions, ideas, complaints, discussions, etc, etc... here.

Try to read through the other thread first though.

I am aware of most bugs and faults in the MOD, and I know there is no Scenario for it and that it only reflects the Era, not the War it self that much.

But that is just as the MOD is know, based on the fact that you will play a Random Map or regular Scenario Map with the Rules.'

I was planning to make a Scenario with REAL city locations, and REAL Nation Relations as during the War for Version 3 (the version now available...), but the edited SAV, crashes when loaded.

So I will make a Scenario with a more updated version, that will reflect the War in 4 different INDUSTRIAL Eras. At the moment there is 3, but they will be redone to reflect the war better. And not the era from Cavalry to Tanks(with more tanks added of course) and after... without making it to the Modern Era.

In the next version, it will start with tanks, some nations will even start with 2 Tank versions. (Almost only available to the 6 Super Powers)

And the 6 Super Powers(Germany, Italy, Japan, Soviets, UK and USA) will all be Favorable to play towards the other nations (as they are the ones intended to be the "Playable Civs"). But the MOD will be balanced so that it won't be favorable to start with either of these Civs, they will be Balanced so that each of them has their own advantage and disadvantage against the other S.Powers.

I think I have written enough... So discuss! (Try not to post on the MOD's Thread... not until you have read the first post on page 9 and understands what I have written in it...)

 

[JoseM]

is this a WW2 european scenario like civ 2 with exact positions ? or it is just a mod in a random map?

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by JoseM
is this a WW2 european scenario like civ 2 with exact positions ? or it is just a mod in a random map?

No for the TIME being, it's just a Random Map MOD. But for the next version I HOPE, to make a Scenario.

Read the other Thread for specifics.

 

[Crist2000]

Sorry Gray Fox, I really didnt noticed the request.

Here is the repost of that message to those who missed the original.

1. I-16 . The mass SU fighter in the start of war. Stats> quite low attack because of poor weaponry, low operational range and high defence because it's super manoeuvrability. I-16 fighter outperformed the the germans ones in dog-fights.

2. IL-2. Ground attack plane. Low range, high defence, no intercept, high bombard.

3. Pe-2. Mass light bomber. High range but poor bombard because of it's low payload.

4. Jak-9 (upgrade from I-16). Came in second half of WWII. The best Soviet fighter. Stats like P-51 "mustang" but w/o bombard ability.

 

[tcwonder3]

Actually, your read of the preformance quality of the IL-1 (not 16) is good, but they did not outperform the ME109BF versions on the Eastern front. The IL-2M3 was the bulk of the Russian airforce until late 1943; good weaponry, heavy,but could neither climb nor turn with any pre-1942 German fighter models. They had an average of 3.5 to 1 attack superiority ratios to win an engagement. Their favorable factor was that they could take more damage, run the ME's out of fuel, then swarm. But only after numbers were massed (which was rare in the early Barbarossa invasion period). And the vast number of fighters destroyed on the ground in the first 48 hrs of Barbarossa let Germany hold air superiority into mid1942. That mass destruction of the IL-1's forced a mass production of the IL-2M3, which otherwise would not have been produced soon enough to have the effect they did on defense. The FW 190 took them out like fireflies, but there weren't enough to swing the tide. The intro of the newer, lighter armoured versions that took more loses(flown by many female pilots!) and the YAK3 and YAK7 was the turning factor. Then it was just numbers that the Nazi's couldn't match (plus arrogance of Germany to send out unescorted bombers to do the work). The YAK-9b was superior to all the ME109E version, but not the later version of the FW190G and didn't show up in enough numbers until late 1943-early 1944. Again it came from heavier armour protection. The PE was originally designed as a twin engine high altitude interceptor fighter, but had to be converted to bombing because of the lack of any ground attack bombers in the Soviet AF at the beginning of the war. It could be listed as a fighter/bomber in western airforce tables of arms. Sorry if I get carried away, I love talking this kind of stuff

 

[Bastion]

Sorry, but fighter IL1 in USSR did not exist, I think you mean YAK1 (constructor Yakovlev, 1940).
IL2 (constructor Ilushin, 1939) is not a fighter it is low-flying attack aircraft (it call "flying tank") - it is a different class air unit.

 

[Dark Sheer]

We have a discussion when Civ3 is first release (read Nov 2001). IMHO, if a WWII scenario is to be made, it should be split into a few maps rather than on the huge World Map. The reasons for this argument are:

1) It takes too long per turn on a Giga map (256x256) and any smaller world map make it meaning less for a WWII scenario.
2) It will go pass 16 Civs if the whole world is included in the scenario.
3) A large map of Europe or say, North Africa, will make the scenario a much interesting one as you can place significant villages or point of interest on the map.

So, should we use this thread to re-discuss what map should be used for the various scenario? My suggestions will be:

1) Western Europe
2) Eastern Front (Operation Babarosa)
3) North Africa
4) China/South East Asia
5) Pacific

Any other suggestion will be welcomed. And I would suggest that once everybody agree that these are the maps to be worked on, each Map/Scenario should start a separate thread to discuss the units/Civs involved in each of the scenario (eg. Communist China & Guo Ming Dang for China scenario etc)

That’s my 2 cent.

 

[Special_O]

Why start this thread here? Isn't that what the mods forum is for?

Anyway, it crashed every time I tried to play it, though it was fun until it pooped itself.

 

[Kryten]

Special_O is right, this should be in the Customisation Forum. But ignoring that, I too have some thoughts.

Would it not be better to combine the Americans and the British Commonwealth into one nation called, say, "Western Allies"? After all, the British used quite a lot of American equipment (Grant/Lee tanks, Sherman tanks, Liberator and Hudson bombers. Even the P51 Mustang was at first rejected by the Americans, used by the British, then adopted again by the USA when the Merlin engine was fitted). And we all know how much the American & Britsh units were intergated and combined with such operations as Torch/Sicily/the Italian campaign/Normandy. Even Eisenhower's headquarters consisted of a mixture of Generals, Air Marshals and Admirals of both nations, all fully intergated and working together.

Another reason for combining the two concerns air power over europe. Civ3 does not allow aircraft to be based in allied cities, but only in cities of their own nation. So if the British Commonwealth and America are seperate nations, then the nearest American aircraft would have to be based in America, thousands of miles from europe! (and bombers in civ3 can only have a range of 8 tiles).
I for one cannot conceive of a WWII scenario in europe WITHOUT the American airforce!

This "Western Allied" nation could still have units with both British and American names. For example; it could build "American B17" daylight bombers (with the 'precision bombing' ability) AND "British Lancaster" night area bombers (with the 'stealth' ability, but increase the 'stealth interception' to say 25%). And it could build two types of infantry; "American GI" motorised units with a move of 2, slightly better attack but slightly worse defence (think of the Kesserine Pass and the Ardennes) AND "British Infantry" with a move of 1, slightly less attack but slightly more defence (I know that they were also motorised, but lets be honest, we British were....er....more 'cautious'. Think of the follow up of Rommel after Alamein or the closing of the Falaise Gap).

Last of all, this "Western Allies" nation could be made to build only units with British names in the early part of the war, simulating American neutrality unitll Pearl Harbor. And as Canada, the United States and the United Kingdom would be one big nation, with most of the cities and factories on the American continent, most of the "Western Allies" units would be built outside of europe and have to be shipped across the sea (thus simulating 'Lend Lease' and Canadian mobilization) and also gives the German U-boats something to sink! The Battle of the Atlantic now becomes vitally important.

But I wouldn't include the French. Even in 1940 the British and French were definitely NOT fully intergrated!

 

[Grey Fox]

It might have been a Weedy move of me to put the Discussion thread here... I don't really know why I did it, but anyways. That is a Good Idea for that Western Allies, but that would only work on a World Map, or a Map of Western Europe that would involve the American East Coast.

We will have different civs on different maps, and I really like Dark Sheers Idea and that is almost what we had been discussing within the Team (I guess you are in the Team Dark Sheer).

 

[Daaraa]

Why not have a couple of sub versions.
1 Incorporate World Map by Marla and start at 4000 BC (See if you can wipe out the "whoever" before 1939)

2 Incorporate World Map by Marla and start at 1935 AD. I said 1935 because that was when war seemed inevidable and the English and French could have planned better. Also the Americans were struggling a lot harder with the great depression and the "mobilization" might have brought them out quicker.

3 Same as above but Aug 1939. What if Germany attacked someone else......

Great mod though

 

[consolide]

WTH, are you not listening?
I heve seen, twice, someone said that this mod does not work, and I heven't seen any answer.
SO WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

P.S. It's not working for me either!!! The same problem. It crashes the time it starts.

 

[medwynn]

Just a suggestion for the Japanese - They made great inroads in South East Asia by using troops on bicycles, advancing very quickly through the jungle. How about 'Bicycle Troops' as a UU with an ability to treat jungle as roads (or at least a movement of 2)?

 

[Christina20]

Sorry,
but i think this mod is ****...
I have Download the WW2Mod3.00 and the unit files,
then i have copy all the unit files into the dir art/units/
I start Civ3 load the Scenario and after one turn i become a Error Message.

Why no Map from Europe?Thats not realistic.
Sorry, my english is not good ;(
Please change that...

 

[Lurchfang]

instead of german stormtroopers make a german UU called Volkssturm. weak and very cheap. They played a more important role in WW2 than the often overestimated stormtroopers.

The soviet airplanes are a nice idea because not the "battle of britain" was the biggest airbattle ever but the "battle of Kursk"summer 1943.

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by consolide
WTH, are you not listening?
I heve seen, twice, someone said that this mod does not work, and I heven't seen any answer.
SO WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

P.S. It's not working for me either!!! The same problem. It crashes the time it starts.

Sorry to have Ignored you. That was not intentional.

I don't know what could be happening. I can only think of these reasons.

- You have put the Unit Folders in the Wrong folder.
- You have the wrong version of Civilization 3. I have only tested the MOD on version 1.17f.

If it isn't these, I don't know what is happening.

Originally posted by Christina20

Why no Map from Europe?Thats not realistic.
Sorry, my english is not good ;(
Please change that...

There is a European Map in the MOD's own thread. But unfortunate there is not correct starting locations yet.

In version 4.0 (If we will ever finish it...) you will be able to play on many maps. With correct starting locations.

And maybe even a Scenario or two, with correct city locations and alliances etc...

 

[Scipio Africanu]

Well here's my 2 cents for what its worth.

I think its very difficult to make a WWII mod without being able to place cities or even create a flat map. Due to the constraints currently in the editor, in my opinion, a release for a WWII mod can't be warrented. I think work can be done on it, but because of the limitations a real full version of WWII just can't be realized.

I also think that since your WWII mod has some significant bugs in it still, and seems largely untested, it should be in Beta. The way this is distinguished is having a Beta after your version announcement. example... WWII Mod, v3.00 <beta>

WWII is a very popular subject with a large audience in wait to both build and use a WWII scenario. Because of this large audience often there are very high expectations for a mod of this nature. This expectations can't be met yet because of the editor unfortunatly and even if it could, its a very thin line to walk. I would try and ensure that every unit implemented for every nation has a purpose and doesn't become a back burner unit. Don't have one or two super units that every body builds and all the other unit in that class are neglected because they just don't stand a chance against the "super unit". Try and design every unit with a specific weakness and strength that can be countered by another, much like actual WWII combat.

Like I said this is just my two cents and don't take this for an attack of any kind. I understand any modifications to the game, large or small, is a time consuming effort. However I think we should all be open to critique if we want a good mod. Good luck!

 

[Kentonio]

but lets be honest, we British were....er....more 'cautious'

But not as 'cautious' as the Americans who couldnt be arsed to join in for several years while we British were busy fighting and dying for democracy, thats my definition of 'cautious'.

Kentonio

 

[Scipio Africanu]

But not as 'cautious' as the Americans who couldnt be arsed to join in for several years while we British were busy fighting and dying for democracy, thats my definition of 'cautious'

Hey we shouldn't be expected to come to resolve European problems whenever they arise. Don't take me wrong, the US should of jumped into WWII long before December 10, 1941. However had you pesky Europeans listened to Woodrow Wilson (the 28th American President) and not taken such huge represcussions in the Verseilles Treaty (i know thats not how you spell it) then Germany wouldn't have gone so crazy. WWII was a direct result of bad diplomatic actions by you Allied Europeans

 

[Jagdpanther]

Originally posted by Lurchfang
instead of german stormtroopers make a german UU called Volkssturm. weak and very cheap. They played a more important role in WW2 than the often overestimated stormtroopers.

volkssturm was only very slightly influencial in the last dwindling years of the war... although not totally lacking significance, hardly the best unit to make a german UU with...

what are the german UUs currently being considered?