Theory on Tech Tree

[Manifold]

Era of Revolutions and the railway age

 

[UWHabs]

I didn't mind the addition of another "modern" era, I think of them as follows: WW1 -> WW2 -> Cold War -> Today. Though I certainly agree with you that placing an era in-between the Renaissance and the Industrial could help the pacing of factory "auras". Adding the Enlightenment also gives civilizations like France and England a time to shine, considering their UU's are all based roughly in that period.

Feels wrong to have 4 eras for the last ~100 years, while there was only 1 for the previous 100 years. As it is, I think they need a larger time between the Classic and Medieval - it seems to jump too quickly through those old ages. And then the fact that there's only 7 medieval techs also makes that period go too quickly. I feel most of my game is basically looking at a big tech 1-2 ages into the future, rushing to that, and then using the bonuses from that to help back-fill all the previous techs.

I do think they need to lock up the eras. I'd almost be tempted to have every period start with a choke point tech, that requires every previous tech for. So, for example, to enter the renaissance, you need to research Printing. At that point in the tree, that would require every tech before it, and would be a pre-req for every tech after it. It would halt beelines, and would at least slow things down a little.

If not that, then they definitely need to beef up the connections. As it stands, the renaissance is really a very pass-through tree - you can literally research one renaissance tech and then advance to the industrial era, which makes it too quick to jump past it and then backfill later. If every tech was forced to have 2 pre-reqs, that would also close things up and force the ages to move a bit faster. It's insane to believe that you can literally research Steel to get battleships without actually having research Sailing.

 

[lindsay40k]

I also noticed in some YouTube playthrough that you can launch space projects without electricity, I don't remember the exact names of techs and haven't checked this myself, but it looked quite funny. Must have been steam-powered space ships.

"You have discovered Transformium"

 

[Ferocitus]

Are you reading the same thread or playing the same game? Your like the only guy who disagrees. This is common knowledge that tech is to fast. On all map sizes. on all speeds.

I am being obtuse because it all depends on your particular play style and your expectations
of winning. Without knowing them all criticisms are meaningless.

Do you re-roll when you get a poor terrain?
If so, then you have given yourself an advantage over a (nominal) average starting position.
How many techs is that worth?
Do you save and restore in case you make a poor choice, or to guard against a bad roll?
If so, then you aren't rolling a fair dice.
How many techs is that worth?

Etc.

 

[Esperr]

I am being obtuse because it all depends on your particular play style and your expectations
of winning. Without knowing them all criticisms are meaningless.

Do you re-roll when you get a poor terrain?
If so, then you have given yourself an advantage over a (nominal) average starting position.
How many techs is that worth?
Do you save and restore in case you make a poor choice, or to guard against a bad roll?
If so, then you aren't rolling a fair dice.
How many techs is that worth?

Etc.

No your being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. Unless you like hitting the information era by 1800 at the latest, its unbalanced and the tech is way to fast.

 

[sabat24]

I use to play only using marathon speed random game, the highest level with the lowest count of resources. In my first game on CIV6 (I played only 2 games on CIV5)...

Do you re-roll when you get a poor terrain?

No.

Do you save and restore in case you make a poor choice, or to guard against a bad roll?

No.

...I even don't care about science. What's more I don't care about anything except my troops. I won my game by domination and my tech tree ended ca. 1850. What's more in laters eras I even didn't care about troops. I had got 3 strong artillery units (depends on time: bombards, artillery, rocket artillery). 2 land units for taking cities (knights,
cavalry, infrantry) and 2 ranged units (crossbowmans etc.) one ship and later 2 bombers. I took every city one by one using only these units. AI wasn't able to kill single unit.
I got a lot of eurekas which I even didn't know why. So for the person who doesn't care about science and plays only in military way, tech tree is faaaar too short / fast even on marathon.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

I'm telling you, we're going to get DLC that builds out a whole era. It's just impossible that the tech tree is complete now. Maybe I'm wrong that it would be future era, maybe it will be an earlier era but some tech steps and content is almost surely missing. (I also love the idea of mandatory research to advance ages posited above, but don't think it solves the primary issue with tech.)

 

[Ferocitus]

No your being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. Unless you like hitting the information era by 1800 at the latest, its unbalanced and the tech is way to fast.

So set it up and/or mod it until it feels right for your style at the level you prefer to play.

The pace of progress through the Tech Tree might be just right for many beginners to average players, and far too fast for experienced players with some maps and some set ups, or for those that use save/restore and other ways of giving themselves advantages.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I don't think we need to make later techs more expensive, they all are boring and add nothing in terms of gameplay. But earlier techs should be slightly more hard to research because ...well, they really quickly discovered. Reducing Eurekas to 30-20% (from 50%) along with regular tech cost increase by 10-15% may be enough.

They should not reduce the effect of Eurekas, maybe make a some of them more difficult/less likely to get.

If they need to increase the cost, they should just increase the cost (probably across the board ancient to info era increase base cost by ~20-50%)

And I seriously doubt they would add an era, maybe a couple more techs in each of the existing eras..but hopefully they stay below 80 total techs.... feature bloat is a problem games run into.

 

[Esperr]

So set it up and/or mod it until it feels right for your style at the level you prefer to play.

The pace of progress through the Tech Tree might be just right for many beginners to average players, and far too fast for experienced players with some maps and some set ups, or for those that use save/restore and other ways of giving themselves advantages.

Ok, we get it, you think the tech pace is fine.

 

[Ferocitus]

Ok, we get it, you think the tech pace is fine.

It suits the ludicrous size maps I play and the style I prefer. If it didn't I would have tailored it to be so.
You're stuck with a dog of a game that you won't modify to suit. That's your own fault - the means and mods are there.

 

[Esperr]

It suits the ludicrous size maps I play and the style I prefer. If it didn't I would have tailored it to be so.
You're stuck with a dog of a game that you won't modify to suit. That's your own fault - the means and mods are there.

Theres a whole section of mods here. Doesn't mean we cant hope the developer wont fix there game. And again, larger maps and slower game speeds make the problem worse, not better, but im sure youl never listen and will continue to single me out in this thread despite the fact that you are the only one who thinks the tech pace is fine. Telling people "Go mod your game" is like telling me to just "fix up" the lemon I bought. But we get it man, were all wrong, the tech pace is fine, were just playing with the wrong settings or something.

 

[Ferocitus]

. Telling people "Go mod your game" is like telling me to just "fix up" the lemon I bought. But we get it man, were all wrong, the tech pace is fine, were just playing with the wrong settings or something.

You bought a lemon that doesn't have to be a lemon.
Keep shaking your fist at the sky.

 

[Ryika]

You bought a lemon that doesn't have to be a lemon.
Keep shaking your fist at the sky.

Just that he didn't buy a lemon but a game that is not delivered as a definitely finished product and instead, like all previous versions of the game, open for changes based on player feedback.
The stance you have taken is dumb. Stop defending it.

 

[Ferocitus]

Just that he didn't buy a lemon but a game that is not delivered as a definitely finished product and instead, like all previous versions of the game, open for changes based on player feedback.
The stance you have taken is dumb. Stop defending it.

Nah, I like hearing people with unreasonable expectations grumbling about things they can change immediately, but don't.

 

[Ryika]

The two aren't even mutually exclusive, the binary that you're working on does not make sense.
Because you can mod your game and then still discuss for why the unmodded version of the game should be changed.

 

[Ferocitus]

The two aren't even mutually exclusive, the binary that you're working on does not make sense.
Because you can mod your game and then still discuss for why the unmodded version of the game should be changed.

Anyone can mod their game to suit their style if they want a more playable version now.
Some people wanted a perfect version at release; others want more of a framework that they can mould to their own specs.
The former are dissatisfied, but made the imprudent choice of getting the game immediately; the latter group are, for the most, enjoying what they have now.

 

[Ryika]

And what does any of this have to do with the fact that you're sitting here, telling people who are discussing about the changes they would like to see that everything is fine and if they don't like it they should just go mod the game?

 

[Ferocitus]

And what does any of this have to do with the fact that you're sitting here, telling people who are discussing about the changes they would like to see that everything is fine and if they don't like it they should just go mod the game?

Everything is not fine for them, clearly.
But they made the poor choice of buying a game with a known history of being buggy and/or incomplete at release.
They could also obviate many of the problems they are having, but choose not to.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Anyone can mod their game to suit their style if they want a more playable version now.
Some people wanted a perfect version at release; others want more of a framework that they can mould to their own specs.
The former are dissatisfied, but made the imprudent choice of getting the game immediately; the latter group are, for the most, enjoying what they have now.

Some people
-would like, but do not expect, a perfect version at release
-would like, and do expect, the version they got at release can be made better
-think it is useful to discuss in what ways it could be better. (either so that they know how they would like to mod it, or can give info to someone else to make a mod they would like...ideally the developers making the game better rather than a mod)